Tile Job Goin Sour, What To Do ?

mendelectric · 08-16-2009, 08:25 PM

Of course my first post will be out of my profession.....I got this 'jack-off all trades ' my wife hired to install a ceramic tile floor in her salon. I found out he was half the cost of the box store contractors and it is starting to show why. First problem he is trying to install 12 x 12 porc tile over an uneven wood substraight. There must be 3 different floors over those 100 yr old 5/4 boards. He removed the top layer of VCT and under that was some 3/8 ply. He just mortered over that and leveled as he went. Some of the changes in thickness are up to 1/2 " along a 4' area. The grout lines are heaving all over the place bc of uneveness. I even know not to try my hand at something that usually takes a few years to begin to get a clue what your doing. Anyhow the second thing that came up tonight is he came to an issue when he started to tile from the main floor into the bathroom. We relocated the door for the bathroom to an adjacent wall. The bath floor has 4 floors under it. The original 5/4, 3/4 hardwood (petrified), the linoleum with luan and finally the 3/8 ply w/vct. the main floor didnt have the linoleum with luan so the 2 levels are about 1/2" off.

I sugested to install a granite threshold to offset the two levels abruptly. Unfortunately he has a full tile that is already set and grouted flush with the baseboard -he didnt remove that either, dumbass! The threshold is 4" and the gap to the set tile is about 1 1/2 ". Too small for a piece of tile. What would be the best fix for this small filler we need. Im pretty sure you cant fill that with grout and he says he cant cut a tile pice that small....get me out of this ...and away from this handy jack-off.

strathd · 08-16-2009, 08:41 PM

Welcome.

BCConstruction · 08-16-2009, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mendelectric

Of course my first post will be out of my profession.....I got this 'jack-off all trades ' my wife hired to install a ceramic tile floor in her salon. I found out he was half the cost of the box store contractors and it is starting to show why. First problem he is trying to install 12 x 12 porc tile over an uneven wood substraight. There must be 3 different floors over those 100 yr old 5/4 boards. He removed the top layer of VCT and under that was some 3/8 ply. He just mortered over that and leveled as he went. Some of the changes in thickness are up to 1/2 " along a 4' area. The grout lines are heaving all over the place bc of uneveness. I even know not to try my hand at something that usually takes a few years to begin to get a clue what your doing. Anyhow the second thing that came up tonight is he came to an issue when he started to tile from the main floor into the bathroom. We relocated the door for the bathroom to an adjacent wall. The bath floor has 4 floors under it. The original 5/4, 3/4 hardwood (petrified), the linoleum with luan and finally the 3/8 ply w/vct. the main floor didnt have the linoleum with luan so the 2 levels are about 1/2" off.

I sugested to install a granite threshold to offset the two levels abruptly. Unfortunately he has a full tile that is already set and grouted flush with the baseboard -he didnt remove that either, dumbass! The threshold is 4" and the gap to the set tile is about 1 1/2 ". Too small for a piece of tile. What would be the best fix for this small filler we need. Im pretty sure you cant fill that with grout and he says he cant cut a tile pice that small....get me out of this ...and away from this handy jack-off.

First of all your wife and you should have been suspicious that his price was so cheap. If you ain't paid him to do the job then i would tell him to sort out the issue's. If i mess up a job and customer ain't happy i fix at my own cost. It sounds like the only fix is going to be a bodge fix. Maybe post some pictures of the area so we have better idea of how bad the problem is.

Also if he cant cut a sliver of tile that small then he clearly don't have the proper tools to do the job also.

Bud Cline · 08-16-2009, 08:58 PM

mendelectric,

Turn on your Private Messaging.

willworkforbeer · 08-16-2009, 09:07 PM

You get what you pay for. Simple. Around here the going rate is $2.50 to $3.50 a sq ft for average work. I wont touch anything for less then $7. I wont touch questionable outcome. You have (had I should say) a job that wasnt possible to do right without a lot of starting over. Nobody could do that right without gettting the underlying stucture correct first. You knew that it sounds like. In a situation like this gettting to the point of laying tile is the real expense.

mendelectric · 08-16-2009, 10:14 PM

not sure why it is off, I dont see any options to turn it on or off.

RCPainting · 08-16-2009, 10:30 PM

You can't pm until you have a certain # of posts, I think it is 15?

Ceramictec · 08-16-2009, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mendelectric

I got this 'jack-off all trades ' my wife hired to install a ceramic tile floor in her salon.

isnt it "jack of" ?

mendelectric · 08-16-2009, 11:21 PM

Maybe your missing the point ?
There is an underlying purpose to that typo
And its not about the substrate
Figure it out..

Bud Cline · 08-17-2009, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Maybe your missing the point ?
There is an underlying purpose to that typo

So you are saying the not so handy handy man is handy afterall.......

mendelectric · 08-17-2009, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bud Cline

So you are saying the not so handy handy man is handy afterall.......

he may be using both !

thom · 08-17-2009, 12:42 AM

It sounds like your wife isn't getting what she wanted but is getting what she paid for. Expecting her hack to do a great job in a sh*t building is cheating both the hack and your wife.

**ChrWright** · 08-17-2009, 01:18 AM

It sounds like the threshold is the least of your worries...

Why is 1 1/2" gap too small for tile? I'm guessing he's cutting with a score & break? Tell him to take some tile to the local Lowes and have them cut on their wet saw to the width you need.

Then take him out back and beat the sh** out of him for setting tile directly to a wood substrate. Why wasn't the floor taken down to the subfloor?

I hate to say what you probably already know, but that mess is going to be giving you fits for years to come.

mendelectric · 08-17-2009, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrWright

It sounds like the threshold is the least of your worries...

Why is 1 1/2" gap too small for tile? I'm guessing he's cutting with a score & break? Tell him to take some tile to the local Lowes and have them cut on their wet saw to the width you need.

Then take him out back and beat the sh** out of him for setting tile directly to a wood substrate. Why wasn't the floor taken down to the subfloor?

I hate to say what you probably already know, but that mess is going to be giving you fits for years to come.

Thanks for the interest.
3/8 ply was under the VCT... glued and ring nailed,
woulda been impossible to demo that.

Is the ply not a good base for tile ?

Also, he didnt remove the adhesive that was used for the VCT, will that have any effect on the thinset?

On the third question related to the gap, he is using a wet saw, guess hes not a total hack, but he only said he couldnt cut pieces that thin, maybe he just never tried.

He just called me from the job, and hes finished for the night. He decided to leave the threshold area for tomorrow night and asked me to get a wider threshold, maybe a 6"..? is that even available? I didnt see those at Lowes. BTW, believe it or not the wall that we moved the door to is 4 1/2" at the top and 6" at the bottom

**ChrWright** · 08-17-2009, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mendelectric

Thanks for the interest.
3/8 ply was under the VCT... glued and ring nailed,
woulda been impossible to demo that.

Is the ply not a good base for tile ?

Short answer, NO. It's an imperfect substrate for tile, even in the best of conditions--and you have nothing close to that.

Also, he didnt remove the adhesive that was used for the VCT, will that have any effect on the thinset?

It's hard to say and depends on the glue. Tile adhered to adhesive...adhesive adhered to plywood. Hopefully the wet thinset won't cause the adhesive to loosen up and debond the tile--in which case you'll have a very hollow sounding floor and grout cracks for ages (if you don't end up with them anyway.)

On the third question related to the gap, he is using a wet saw, guess hes not a total hack, but he only said he couldnt cut pieces that thin, maybe he just never tried.

An 1 1/2" rip on a 12" tile is do-able on even the cheapest of tiles. If it's a hard porcelain and he's using the wrong blade--it may be a problem for him. (The tiles will want to crack out when he gets close to the end of the cut). That's even assuming it's a full size wet saw, and not a tiny 4" DIY job.

He just called me from the job, and hes finished for the night. He decided to leave the threshold area for tomorrow night and asked me to get a wider threshold, maybe a 6"..? is that even available? I didnt see those at Lowes. BTW, believe it or not the wall that we moved the door to is 4 1/2" at the top and 6" at the bottom

I DO NOT want to be "that guy" sh**ing all over a job you're paying good money for... But from the sound of it, he doesn't have any business installing tile.

What kind of threshold are you looking for? Stone?

The door frame is a different width from top to bottom? Why so far off?

mendelectric · 08-17-2009, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrWright

I DO NOT want to be "that guy" sh**ing all over a job you're paying good money for... But from the sound of it, he doesn't have any business installing tile.

What kind of threshold are you looking for? Stone?

The door frame is a different width from top to bottom? Why so far off?

I am already 'that guy'. Got the black stone threshold over at Lowes but only in 4"

Walls are from the 20s so were heavy stud and plasterboard /rockboard. Many adjustments made over the years to that wall with plumbing in and out and the like. Not sure how the wall ended up like this but I need to deal with what I have. Not sure what the trim will look like, with flush at bottom and 1" gap at the top... uck. Whats your take on that ?
Cant cut a filler that looks like a doorstop. Only choice to add a 1" extension jamb and caulk the gap in the back ?

I just repaired the joists underneath that wall. After I cut the opening for the new door i saw a hole through the plate like it was used for a return plenum. To my dismay, I also saw 12" of the floor joist below cut completely through which is directly above the cast main sewer line. Someone added this sink drain and tapped the main, but decided to cut the 15' joist out of their path (clueless bitches) This place has seen its share of hacks in the past. Told the wife to burn this POS down years ago, I hate working in there, especially doing my own trade.
Too bad she is still sucking...a profit

bwalley · 08-17-2009, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mendelectric

Of course my first post will be out of my profession.....I got this 'jack-off all trades ' my wife hired to install a ceramic tile floor in her salon. I found out he was half the cost of the box store contractors and it is starting to show why. First problem he is trying to install 12 x 12 porc tile over an uneven wood substraight. There must be 3 different floors over those 100 yr old 5/4 boards. He removed the top layer of VCT and under that was some 3/8 ply. He just mortered over that and leveled as he went. Some of the changes in thickness are up to 1/2 " along a 4' area. The grout lines are heaving all over the place bc of uneveness. I even know not to try my hand at something that usually takes a few years to begin to get a clue what your doing. Anyhow the second thing that came up tonight is he came to an issue when he started to tile from the main floor into the bathroom. We relocated the door for the bathroom to an adjacent wall. The bath floor has 4 floors under it. The original 5/4, 3/4 hardwood (petrified), the linoleum with luan and finally the 3/8 ply w/vct. the main floor didnt have the linoleum with luan so the 2 levels are about 1/2" off.

I sugested to install a granite threshold to offset the two levels abruptly. Unfortunately he has a full tile that is already set and grouted flush with the baseboard -he didnt remove that either, dumbass! The threshold is 4" and the gap to the set tile is about 1 1/2 ". Too small for a piece of tile. What would be the best fix for this small filler we need. Im pretty sure you cant fill that with grout and he says he cant cut a tile pice that small....get me out of this ...and away from this handy jack-off.

Your wife hired a hack and this is what you get.

You cannot apply thinset directly to the plywood subfloor, he should have installed a cementious backer board.

I would have the guy leave as he doesn't know what he is doing and hire someone else off of craigslist to come fix the mess you have.

mendelectric · 08-17-2009, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwalley

Your wife hired a hack and this is what you get.

You cannot apply thinset directly to the plywood subfloor, he should have installed a cementious backer board.

I would have the guy leave as he doesn't know what he is doing and hire someone else off of craigslist to come fix the mess you have.

Thanks for the optomistic point of view, but the obvious is already beyond us. 'Jack-off' is finished with the entire 700sf floor. Grout is done. The floor is placed... set......match..were done -we lost. Just glad it wasnt in our home as this $$it woulda sent me over the edge !

So I am trying to get this threshold thing done so this guy can be GONE ! If you have any other constructive comments to add I would be honored to hear your advice.

bwalley · 08-17-2009, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mendelectric

Thanks for the optomistic point of view, but the obvious is already beyond us. 'Jack-off' is finished with the entire 700sf floor. Grout is done. The floor is placed... set......match..were done -we lost. Just glad it wasnt in our home as this $$it woulda sent me over the edge !

So I am trying to get this threshold thing done so this guy can be GONE ! If you have any other constructive comments to add I would be honored to hear your advice.

What is the difference in height on the 2 floors?

Can you post a picture of where the threshhold goes, it might help me.

**ChrWright** · 08-17-2009, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mendelectric

...Walls are from the 20s so were heavy stud and plasterboard /rockboard. Many adjustments made over the years to that wall with plumbing in and out and the like. Not sure how the wall ended up like this but I need to deal with what I have. Not sure what the trim will look like, with flush at bottom and 1" gap at the top... uck. Whats your take on that ?
Cant cut a filler that looks like a doorstop. Only choice to add a 1" extension jamb and caulk the gap in the back ?

One option is to rip your extension jamb to a wedge to fit the wall width. Hopefully you have at least one wall face that's close to plumb (and hopefully that's the hinge side).

Another option is to rip your extension jamb to the widest thickness of the wall (as you described) and then rip a wedge to bridge the gap behind the casing on both sides. This will probably look better--just clamp a 1x over a 2x4/2x6 and rip it by hand with a circular saw (set to just beyond the thickness of the 1x).

08-16-2009, 08:25 PM	#1
mendelectric View Profile mendelectric Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (41) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Member Trade: Master Electrician Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Albany NY Posts: 41	Tile Job Goin Sour, What To Do ? Of course my first post will be out of my profession.....I got this 'jack-off all trades ' my wife hired to install a ceramic tile floor in her salon. I found out he was half the cost of the box store contractors and it is starting to show why. First problem he is trying to install 12 x 12 porc tile over an uneven wood substraight. There must be 3 different floors over those 100 yr old 5/4 boards. He removed the top layer of VCT and under that was some 3/8 ply. He just mortered over that and leveled as he went. Some of the changes in thickness are up to 1/2 " along a 4' area. The grout lines are heaving all over the place bc of uneveness. I even know not to try my hand at something that usually takes a few years to begin to get a clue what your doing. Anyhow the second thing that came up tonight is he came to an issue when he started to tile from the main floor into the bathroom. We relocated the door for the bathroom to an adjacent wall. The bath floor has 4 floors under it. The original 5/4, 3/4 hardwood (petrified), the linoleum with luan and finally the 3/8 ply w/vct. the main floor didnt have the linoleum with luan so the 2 levels are about 1/2" off. I sugested to install a granite threshold to offset the two levels abruptly. Unfortunately he has a full tile that is already set and grouted flush with the baseboard -he didnt remove that either, dumbass! The threshold is 4" and the gap to the set tile is about 1 1/2 ". Too small for a piece of tile. What would be the best fix for this small filler we need. Im pretty sure you cant fill that with grout and he says he cant cut a tile pice that small....get me out of this ...and away from this handy jack-off.

08-16-2009, 08:41 PM	#2
strathd View Profile strathd strat hd Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,696) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity strat hd Trade: framing contractor , remodeler , GC occasionally Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 1,696	Re: Tile Job Goin Sour, What To Do ? Welcome.

08-16-2009, 08:58 PM	#4
Bud Cline View Profile Bud Cline Tile Contractor Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,216) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Tile Contractor Trade: Building Trades-Specializing in Ceramic Tile Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Hastings Nebraska Posts: 1,216	Re: Tile Job Goin Sour, What To Do ? mendelectric, Turn on your Private Messaging. __________________ TO OUR VALUED CUSTOMERS: Please manage your children. Any children unattended throughout the day will be given a Free Mountain Due at our regular quiting time.

08-16-2009, 09:07 PM	#5
willworkforbeer View Profile willworkforbeer Home Depot aisle walker Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (917) Photos (1) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Home Depot aisle walker Trade: home remodeling Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tulsa OK Posts: 917	Re: Tile Job Goin Sour, What To Do ? You get what you pay for. Simple. Around here the going rate is $2.50 to $3.50 a sq ft for average work. I wont touch anything for less then $7. I wont touch questionable outcome. You have (had I should say) a job that wasnt possible to do right without a lot of starting over. Nobody could do that right without gettting the underlying stucture correct first. You knew that it sounds like. In a situation like this gettting to the point of laying tile is the real expense.

08-16-2009, 10:14 PM	#6
mendelectric View Profile mendelectric Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (41) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Member Trade: Master Electrician Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Albany NY Posts: 41	Re: Tile Job Goin Sour, What To Do ? not sure why it is off, I dont see any options to turn it on or off.

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08-16-2009, 10:30 PM	#7
RCPainting View Profile RCPainting Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (910) Photos (0) Reviews (2) Projects (1) Toolbox (4) View All Activity Pro Trade: Painting in Utah Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Southern Utah Posts: 910	Re: Tile Job Goin Sour, What To Do ? You can't pm until you have a certain # of posts, I think it is 15? __________________ Painting Southern Utah one house at a time! Cedar City, Utah Painting Company Linkedin The Blogging Painters

08-16-2009, 11:21 PM	#9
mendelectric View Profile mendelectric Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (41) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Member Trade: Master Electrician Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Albany NY Posts: 41	Re: Tile Job Goin Sour, What To Do ? Maybe your missing the point ? There is an underlying purpose to that typo And its not about the substrate Figure it out.. Last edited by mendelectric; 08-17-2009 at 11:31 AM.

08-17-2009, 12:42 AM	#12
thom View Profile thom Thom Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (3,197) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Thom Trade: General Contractor/Homebuilder Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Albuquerque NM Posts: 3,197	Re: Tile Job Goin Sour, What To Do ? It sounds like your wife isn't getting what she wanted but is getting what she paid for. Expecting her hack to do a great job in a sh*t building is cheating both the hack and your wife.

08-17-2009, 01:18 AM	#13
ChrWright View Profile ChrWright Builder/Remodeler Send Message Follow Blogs (2) Threads (3,563) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (6) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Builder/Remodeler Trade: Builder/Remodeler Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 3,563	Re: Tile Job Goin Sour, What To Do ? It sounds like the threshold is the least of your worries... Why is 1 1/2" gap too small for tile? I'm guessing he's cutting with a score & break? Tell him to take some tile to the local Lowes and have them cut on their wet saw to the width you need. Then take him out back and beat the sh** out of him for setting tile directly to a wood substrate. Why wasn't the floor taken down to the subfloor? I hate to say what you probably already know, but that mess is going to be giving you fits for years to come. __________________ Christopher Wright, CR: President @ WrightWorks, LLC/President @ Central Indiana NARI, Named to the 2010 REMODELING Big50 www.WrightWorks.net - Facebook - Twitter - Carmel Remodeling Indianapolis Kitchen Remodeling Contractor - You Can Get There From Here

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