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Tile job goin sour, what to do ?

12K views 64 replies 14 participants last post by  Bud Cline 
#1 ·
Of course my first post will be out of my profession.....I got this 'jack-off all trades ' my wife hired to install a ceramic tile floor in her salon. I found out he was half the cost of the box store contractors and it is starting to show why. First problem he is trying to install 12 x 12 porc tile over an uneven wood substraight. There must be 3 different floors over those 100 yr old 5/4 boards. He removed the top layer of VCT and under that was some 3/8 ply. He just mortered over that and leveled as he went. Some of the changes in thickness are up to 1/2 " along a 4' area. The grout lines are heaving all over the place bc of uneveness. I even know not to try my hand at something that usually takes a few years to begin to get a clue what your doing. Anyhow the second thing that came up tonight is he came to an issue when he started to tile from the main floor into the bathroom. We relocated the door for the bathroom to an adjacent wall. The bath floor has 4 floors under it. The original 5/4, 3/4 hardwood (petrified), the linoleum with luan and finally the 3/8 ply w/vct. the main floor didnt have the linoleum with luan so the 2 levels are about 1/2" off.

I sugested to install a granite threshold to offset the two levels abruptly. Unfortunately he has a full tile that is already set and grouted flush with the baseboard -he didnt remove that either, dumbass! The threshold is 4" and the gap to the set tile is about 1 1/2 ". Too small for a piece of tile. What would be the best fix for this small filler we need. Im pretty sure you cant fill that with grout and he says he cant cut a tile pice that small....get me out of this ...and away from this handy jack-off.
 
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#3 ·
Of course my first post will be out of my profession.....I got this 'jack-off all trades ' my wife hired to install a ceramic tile floor in her salon. I found out he was half the cost of the box store contractors and it is starting to show why. First problem he is trying to install 12 x 12 porc tile over an uneven wood substraight. There must be 3 different floors over those 100 yr old 5/4 boards. He removed the top layer of VCT and under that was some 3/8 ply. He just mortered over that and leveled as he went. Some of the changes in thickness are up to 1/2 " along a 4' area. The grout lines are heaving all over the place bc of uneveness. I even know not to try my hand at something that usually takes a few years to begin to get a clue what your doing. Anyhow the second thing that came up tonight is he came to an issue when he started to tile from the main floor into the bathroom. We relocated the door for the bathroom to an adjacent wall. The bath floor has 4 floors under it. The original 5/4, 3/4 hardwood (petrified), the linoleum with luan and finally the 3/8 ply w/vct. the main floor didnt have the linoleum with luan so the 2 levels are about 1/2" off.

I sugested to install a granite threshold to offset the two levels abruptly. Unfortunately he has a full tile that is already set and grouted flush with the baseboard -he didnt remove that either, dumbass! The threshold is 4" and the gap to the set tile is about 1 1/2 ". Too small for a piece of tile. What would be the best fix for this small filler we need. Im pretty sure you cant fill that with grout and he says he cant cut a tile pice that small....get me out of this ...and away from this handy jack-off.
First of all your wife and you should have been suspicious that his price was so cheap. If you ain't paid him to do the job then i would tell him to sort out the issue's. If i mess up a job and customer ain't happy i fix at my own cost. It sounds like the only fix is going to be a bodge fix. Maybe post some pictures of the area so we have better idea of how bad the problem is.

Also if he cant cut a sliver of tile that small then he clearly don't have the proper tools to do the job also.
 
#5 ·
You get what you pay for. Simple. Around here the going rate is $2.50 to $3.50 a sq ft for average work. I wont touch anything for less then $7. I wont touch questionable outcome. You have (had I should say) a job that wasnt possible to do right without a lot of starting over. Nobody could do that right without gettting the underlying stucture correct first. You knew that it sounds like. In a situation like this gettting to the point of laying tile is the real expense.
 
#34 ·
No "Jack Off" is the right term for the hack that did the floor.

One thing the salon owner may want to consider is if the tile floor was not installed properly and a client or employee trips on it for whatever reason (out of level, excessive lippage, loose tile, etc.) they now know it is a substandard job, yet the chose to leave it down anyway.

What are they going to do when granny trips and falls and breaks her hip and ends up in a wheel chair?
 
#12 ·
It sounds like your wife isn't getting what she wanted but is getting what she paid for. Expecting her hack to do a great job in a sh*t building is cheating both the hack and your wife.
 
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#13 ·
It sounds like the threshold is the least of your worries...

Why is 1 1/2" gap too small for tile? I'm guessing he's cutting with a score & break? Tell him to take some tile to the local Lowes and have them cut on their wet saw to the width you need.

Then take him out back and beat the sh** out of him for setting tile directly to a wood substrate. Why wasn't the floor taken down to the subfloor?

I hate to say what you probably already know, but that mess is going to be giving you fits for years to come.
 
#14 ·
It sounds like the threshold is the least of your worries...

Why is 1 1/2" gap too small for tile? I'm guessing he's cutting with a score & break? Tell him to take some tile to the local Lowes and have them cut on their wet saw to the width you need.

Then take him out back and beat the sh** out of him for setting tile directly to a wood substrate. Why wasn't the floor taken down to the subfloor?

I hate to say what you probably already know, but that mess is going to be giving you fits for years to come.
Thanks for the interest.
3/8 ply was under the VCT... glued and ring nailed,
woulda been impossible to demo that.

Is the ply not a good base for tile ?

Also, he didnt remove the adhesive that was used for the VCT, will that have any effect on the thinset?

On the third question related to the gap, he is using a wet saw, guess hes not a total hack, but he only said he couldnt cut pieces that thin, maybe he just never tried.

He just called me from the job, and hes finished for the night. He decided to leave the threshold area for tomorrow night and asked me to get a wider threshold, maybe a 6"..? is that even available? I didnt see those at Lowes. BTW, believe it or not the wall that we moved the door to is 4 1/2" at the top and 6" at the bottom :(
 
#17 ·
Of course my first post will be out of my profession.....I got this 'jack-off all trades ' my wife hired to install a ceramic tile floor in her salon. I found out he was half the cost of the box store contractors and it is starting to show why. First problem he is trying to install 12 x 12 porc tile over an uneven wood substraight. There must be 3 different floors over those 100 yr old 5/4 boards. He removed the top layer of VCT and under that was some 3/8 ply. He just mortered over that and leveled as he went. Some of the changes in thickness are up to 1/2 " along a 4' area. The grout lines are heaving all over the place bc of uneveness. I even know not to try my hand at something that usually takes a few years to begin to get a clue what your doing. Anyhow the second thing that came up tonight is he came to an issue when he started to tile from the main floor into the bathroom. We relocated the door for the bathroom to an adjacent wall. The bath floor has 4 floors under it. The original 5/4, 3/4 hardwood (petrified), the linoleum with luan and finally the 3/8 ply w/vct. the main floor didnt have the linoleum with luan so the 2 levels are about 1/2" off.

I sugested to install a granite threshold to offset the two levels abruptly. Unfortunately he has a full tile that is already set and grouted flush with the baseboard -he didnt remove that either, dumbass! The threshold is 4" and the gap to the set tile is about 1 1/2 ". Too small for a piece of tile. What would be the best fix for this small filler we need. Im pretty sure you cant fill that with grout and he says he cant cut a tile pice that small....get me out of this ...and away from this handy jack-off.
Your wife hired a hack and this is what you get.

You cannot apply thinset directly to the plywood subfloor, he should have installed a cementious backer board.

I would have the guy leave as he doesn't know what he is doing and hire someone else off of craigslist to come fix the mess you have.
 
#18 ·
Thanks for the optomistic point of view, but the obvious is already beyond us. 'Jack-off' is finished with the entire 700sf floor. Grout is done. The floor is placed... set......match..were done -we lost. Just glad it wasnt in our home as this $$it woulda sent me over the edge !

So I am trying to get this threshold thing done so this guy can be GONE ! If you have any other constructive comments to add I would be honored to hear your advice.
 
#21 ·
I feel for the OP...But like many have said you get what you pay for...I can only hope the sub floor is on the stiff side.Because a salon will get a good amount of foot traffic.The fact that the tile is directly on they plywood is bad enough.If it has any bounce to it those tiles will not stay where they where put...
 
#22 ·
I don't think there's any helping the floor at this point. :sad:

One of my favorite quotes on the subject:

It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money -- that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot -- it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.
-John Ruskin

That's a big bummer when you'll be having to deal with it and goober hand-job won't be around past the weekend.

At least she's makin' money! :thumbsup:

I have a client with a day care I've been trying to talk into burning her building down for years (sans children of course!). FIVE sump pumps in a finished lower lever that floods on a cloudy day--but she keeps vacuuming it up and cashing the checks.
 
#23 ·
All this input and still no one has asked if the floor structure is suitable for a tile installation to begin with.

Does the floor meet the required deflection criteria to support a tile installation?

Are the floor joists of suitable size?
Are the floor joists of a suitable spacing?
Are the joist spans within suitable distances?

I very much doubt the floor should have tile on it to begin with, most buildings of that vintage won't meet the necessary criteria.:)
 
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#28 ·
The point in asking those questions now is to determine if all the recent improvements should be removed and more suitable improvements should be installed. This must be interfering with the business. How long can this BS go on? Get it done right and get it over with.

The point in asking those questions now is also to beat someone over their head for being so cheap. There is a place in the world of repairdom for a handyman but this isn't the place.

It amazes me the number of people that do dumb crap like this and when things begin to crumble that's when they seek help from the Internet. I don't understand why people don't think to research these things BEFORE they dump funds into a predicable failure.:whistling
 
#33 ·
Preaching to the choir...
Oh how well I know, I'm real familiar with that scenario. The thing is...I am well aware that there are many lurkers out there that will benefit from the information they see here and some may even be saved from themselves in the future. Any tidbit of legitimate information is worth posting over and over and over again.:)

Successful ceramic tile installations are not as easy as the home centers would have everyone believe. There can be a lot of knowledge needed to installing a successful tile floor that will last for decades.:)
 
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#35 ·
The business operator should probably check with their Liability Insurance carrier to see if any personal and bodily injury claims will be honored under the circumstances. Sure hate to see them end up in court and the other side have access to this thread.:) Talk about a smoking gun.:) This is it.:)
 
#36 ·
The business operator should probably check with their Liability Insurance carrier to see if any personal and bodily injury claims will be honored under the circumstances. Sure hate to see them end up in court and the other side have access to this thread.:) Talk about a smoking gun.:) This is it.:)
Even if the liability insuarnce will pay the claim, he knows a substandard job was done, but is willing to leave it down, which if the P.I. attorney is any good will find out, and will use it to get more money and then the insurance company may deny coverage.

It is one thing to allow hack work to be done in a private residence, it is another to allow it to be done in a commercial setting that has the public in.
 
#46 ·
OMG, you wouldnt expect this hohu could do 1 more thing right...
I just saw the job he did on the threshold..
We got em a 6" and he installed it today.
To make up for the 1/2 difference in floors I figured he would just install the thing in the doorway and there would be a little less of a drop off on 1 side maybe 3/8"...instead he installed the fu**in thing at an angle lower on the low side up to the high side...OMFG this guy is a spankmonkey!

When things go bad.........:furious:
 
#49 · (Edited)
I believe the floor structure is sound.
YOU believe the floor structure is sound. And what is your training and background in determining this?:)

I'm afraid I have some more bad news for YOU my friend. The 2X8's are bad news and the span if you are correct about that is even badder news.

A floor structure used for a ceramic tile installation requires a deflection rating of L/360. Your floor with species unknown, full 2" X 8" joists, and a 15 foot span comes up to L/169. The materials covering the joists mean little in this calculation. I'll bet that bounces like a boxing ring when you walk on it.:)

OH WELL! Too late now.:)
 
#51 ·
YOU believe the floor structure is sound. And what is your training and background in determining this?:)

I'm afraid I have some more bad news for YOU my friend. The 2X8's are bad news and the span if you are correct about that is even badder news.

A floor structure used for a ceramic tile installation requires a deflection rating of L/360. Your floor with species unknown, full 2" X 8" joists, and a 15 foot span comes up to L/169. The materials covering the joists mean little in this calculation. I'll bet that bounces like a boxing ring when you walk on it.:)

OH WELL! Too late now.:)

Sorry Bud,
You are being very helpful but I am afraid I misled you. I only guessed at the length of the floor joists. I just measured them and they are only 12'. Maybe that will help the calculation get within the requirements. Please recalc and let me know ?
Thanks x 10
 
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