Still Not Wanting To Use Kerdi

MattCoops

I know I'll get a lot of bs from the schluter sluts but, aside from metal transition strips and Ditra, I don't like the other products, especially Kerdi and it's have to be dead center drain system, styrophome pan, and webbed walls.

We use DensShield for our walls and floors. And we go over the seams and screws with liquid waterproof agent.
Just had a discussion with younger builder about it. And he agreed we had a good system concept.

Is everyone using Kerdi nowadays?
Doesn't anyone use backerboard systems on shower wall applications?
There are ways to make it waterproof.

And I think you get a more structurally sound, smooth surface with a backerboard system.

__________________
Matt with Cupan Custom Tile & Paint of Lowell, Massachusetts
Design and installation of ceramic tile and natural stone for floor, wall, and countertops
(978) 601-8774 | cupantile@gmail.com | view tile pictures and more

angus242

I say whatever you feel most comfortable with as long as it IS waterproof.
I'm still losing bids on cheaper guys that don't waterproof at all. Last quote I did, the HO had mold behind the old shower walls (not waterproofed) and still wasn't willing to pay anything extra to get the new shower sealed.

genecarp

denshield, check

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Splinter

The beauty of Kerdi is the drain and it's ability to bond to a membrane directly under the tile covering. The drain does not have to be exactly centered if you make a mud slope instead of using the overpriced foam trays. I've done dozens of Kerdi showers and havent even seen one of those trays up close. If you cant make a simple mudbed with a proper even slope, it's time to get out of the business. I hear McDonalds is always hiring.

I thought Denshield was a gypsum core product. How is that any better than drywall behind Kerdi? As long as the framing is decent, 1/2" drywall with tile on it is going to look fine. I do like to go a little overkill though, that's why I use 5/8" sheetrock behind Kerdi wherever possible. I used to avoid Hardi like the plague because it would suck the water from the thinset so quick, hanging Kerdi would be a challenge. I've done a few recently with Hardi though and feel I've drastically improved with that type of installation.

In my area there's a lot of guys who will say they can build a shower, and then slap up some wonderboard without a moisture barrier behind it.. They'll screw backerboard to the top and inside of the curb... They'll start stacking tile up the walls without taping the vertical corners. I recently did an inspection on a brand new shower and when I pulled some of the cracked grout out of the tiled vertical corners, I could very clearly see the wall studs.

The Kerdi system is great for DIY'ers with limited construction experience, and even better for hack tile guys who cant figure out how to construct a traditional shower properly. If everything looks orange, you're good to go.


Hey Genecarp--- I just noticed I'm about 5 minutes to the east of you.. Hi neighbor!

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- Alex

Long Island Remodeling Contractor

MattCoops

[QUOTE=Splinter;407567]The beauty of Kerdi is the drain ...[QUOTE]

Actually the thing I hate most about Kerdi is the drain. You pretty much are forced to have the drain centered. The second time I used Kerdi shower kit I had to cut into floor joists to move the drain to the center. I don't like cutting into floor joists. There's a lot of inspections for that by the county's dungeon master.

I can get over plastic underlayments, rubber wall coverings, and styrophome shower pans.

But the drain, although well designed, needs to have more flexibility. I like the drain in itself, watertight system. But don't like fact it has to be centered as such.

90% of time, I'm leaving drain right where it is. That's why we do "custom" shower pans. Plumb work is an arduous, time-taking task, and an extra expense.

__________________
Matt with Cupan Custom Tile & Paint of Lowell, Massachusetts
Design and installation of ceramic tile and natural stone for floor, wall, and countertops
(978) 601-8774 | cupantile@gmail.com | view tile pictures and more

Bud Cline

I don't get it!

Neither the KERDI Drain nor the Schluter Shower Kit must be perfectly centered to accomplish a good shower installation. Of course it is better if everything is symetrical but it certainly doesn't have to be.

Where's the problem (when building a brand new shower from the ground up) to get the drain centered anyway? I don't get it!

JJC

Matt you just busted my bubble! After all these years of installing Kerdi system showers now you come along and tell me that all these drains that I've put in off set from center are impossible to do!!!! Even the foam trays can be offset. I know because I do it and I wasn't asleep in class. I still prefer mud over foam but foam has its place in the industry.
I've been to CTEF numerous times both for Schluter and other classes and I must have been sleeping if they said it has to go in the center.

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Jim
Regional Director NTCA
"You can't afford not to do it right"

Splinter

Practice a little Matt.... Swapping out a p-trap is as easy as eating pie. Sweating in a new mixing valve is a 30 minute job.

Now pay attention.. The Kerdi drain DOES NOT have to be centered. I try my best to get them as close as possible, but there are times I've left it off center because of framing issues. Mud pans are all I use with Kerdi drains, so I can put that thing in the corner if I felt like it. It takes me about an hour to mud a 3x3 shower floor.


Now before I catch any sh!t from the plumbing Nazi's on board, I'm also a union steamfitter... I've sweat my share of small copper and brazed more than enough of the big stuff.

__________________
- Alex

Long Island Remodeling Contractor

MattCoops

I guess when I had to cut into floor joists and mess with the integrity of the structure, that's what made me dislike moving drains.

__________________
Matt with Cupan Custom Tile & Paint of Lowell, Massachusetts
Design and installation of ceramic tile and natural stone for floor, wall, and countertops
(978) 601-8774 | cupantile@gmail.com | view tile pictures and more

Bill_Vincent

Horsehockey.

Ain't nothing centered about this:

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"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're probably right."

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MattCoops

You used the kerdi tray for that?

Can the kerdi drain be used with a mud job?

__________________
Matt with Cupan Custom Tile & Paint of Lowell, Massachusetts
Design and installation of ceramic tile and natural stone for floor, wall, and countertops
(978) 601-8774 | cupantile@gmail.com | view tile pictures and more

JazMan

"Can the kerdi drain be used with a mud job?"

Matt, where have you been?

I have never used those foam bases and have no plans to use them unless I get a bunch of cookie-cutter showers to do.

A Kerdi shower is much better than a DenShield shower, and it can be easily proved. The secret IS the drain. The walls could be waterproofed using any number of other products.
KERDI SHOWERS; http://picasaweb.google.com/tile4youinc

One of the biggest problem I have with Dens is how it interfaces at the bottom since it should NOT be buried in the deck mud, same with Hardi. If you take a look at their sketch you'll see.

Jaz

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Tile 4 You llc
KERDI Shower
specialist...DITRA Installs...
www.tile4you.com

R&D Tile

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Bill_Vincent

I don't think I really need to say any more, but for the record, I've also never used the foam pan.

__________________
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're probably right."

http://www.creativeceramicandmarble.com

master mason

Take a deep breath Bill.

Bud Cline

I've used a lot of the "foam shower trays" from Schluter. Never once has one of them perfectly fit my conditions. Rarely are the drains perfectly centered. And still the trays work great. Sometimes a guy must think outside the box.

Bill_Vincent

One other thing to think about- there's wouldn't be so many of us "Schluter Sluts" if the product didn't do exactly what it says it does-- make it much easier and much faster to put together an IMPROVED QUALITY shower.

__________________
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're probably right."

http://www.creativeceramicandmarble.com

firemike

I agree! I have done 30+ kerdi showers and have yet to ever use a foam pan. I prefer a mud base, and rarely do the drains ever end up centered, and that is usually because of framing, shower layout, tile layout, etc. I put the drain where it will look the best and work the best.

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-Mike-

Bud Cline

FWIW!

The KERDI Drain can be adjusted within the foam kit, there is room for some correction (in all directions) if need be. In addition as we all know (most of us) there is also an opportunity to adjust the location of the drain assembly itself within the KERDI Drains base fixture. The foam kit can also be cut (obviously) to adjust the necessary fit and the edges can then be filled to balance the positioning of the kit.

It's too simple - not everyone has the ability to do simple stuff.

I do!

MattCoops

A lot of our shower bases are wide. I think too wide for that tray.
Like the last shower was 13 ft long and 4 ft wide. There would have to be a mud base for that.
I never knew you could use the drain without the foam base.
Guess I was busy doing the same thing we been doing to get into new stuff.
The old theory of why fix it if it ain't broke.

I'll definitely use the kerdi drain for our next project.
Thanks Schluter.

Question though:
Can I install the drain, pre slops, install liner, do a mud bed, then tile?
Or does the drain have to be covered in the orange kerdi?

__________________
Matt with Cupan Custom Tile & Paint of Lowell, Massachusetts
Design and installation of ceramic tile and natural stone for floor, wall, and countertops
(978) 601-8774 | cupantile@gmail.com | view tile pictures and more