Shower Surround & Bathroom Questions

Tommy C

Hi guys, mason here....

I'm tiling a shower for a good customer.

A) In your professional opinions, is a waterproofing membrane necessary in the shower surround, or is it overkill?

B) The bathroom floor is on a concrete slab. Should I install a Ditra membrane in case the slab shifts/cracks? In general, is a waterproofing membrane necessary?

olzo55

tom, what's the last part of a shower to dry out? the bottom. that's where they fail. waterproofing the shower makes a great job. the concrete floor, how old is it? anycracks? if it's older and no cracks or hydronic heat, you could skip the ditra.

MattCoops

I wrote up an article in my blog on How to install a mud shower pan for tile.

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Matt with Cupan Custom Tile & Paint of Lowell, Massachusetts
Design and installation of ceramic tile and natural stone for floor, wall, and countertops
(978) 601-8774 | cupantile@gmail.com | view tile pictures and more

Bud Cline

Is this a tub shower or a full-blown standup shower from the floor up?

kevjob

yes on the ditra unmodified under and above

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Kevin
Basement Finishing Highlands Ranch Colorado
Littleton Colorado, Basement Remodeling
Kitchen Remodeling Denver

genecarp

noooo

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Splinter

A. I would assume this is just a tub/shower combo... If he's asking if any waterproofing is necessary for a stand alone shower, he's in trouble...

So, no, waterproofing in a tub surround is not necessary, just use a moisture barrier behind the cement board. If you want to do a top notch job, use a surface applied membrane like Kerdi or RedGard instead. (I like Kerdi)

B. Ditra on the floor outside the tub is good insurance. It doesnt add a lot of height to the floor either.

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- Alex

Long Island Remodeling Contractor

Tommy C

Guys, this is a full blown stand alone shower...no tub. That's why I'll be using Kerdi on the walls.

I'm assuming in a stand alone shower, a Kerdi membrane or something similar IS entirely necessary...that's what I figured.

I'm also going to use Ditra on the floor. I'll be using unmodified thinset below the Ditra, and on top of the Ditra for the tile, correct?

On the shower walls...I'll again be using unmodified thinset under and on top of the Kerdi, correct?

Out of curiosity, if the floor was plywood, would I still use unmodified, or would a modified be better to apply the Ditra?

kevjob

on plywood they want modified. the ditra is for un-coupling not waterproofing although you can tape the seams on ditra and make it water proof.

__________________
Kevin
Basement Finishing Highlands Ranch Colorado
Littleton Colorado, Basement Remodeling
Kitchen Remodeling Denver

Bud Cline

OK NOW which floor are we talikng about, the shower or the bathroom.

You need to read the instructions and understand them for using the Schluter products.

Floordude

I'll say it now... YOUR in WAY OVER YOUR HEAD!!!!!

Cut your losses now!!! A shower is not the place to learn!!

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**Education is the key to success. Learn more, earn more.**
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Tommy C

Bud, I'm talking about the bathroom floor, not the shower floor.

Whoa, you tile guys are finicky...we're pretty laid back on the Masonry Board.

Floordude, I'm a tradesman. I've done a lot of small-ish tile jobs. I certainly know the basics. It's just that I've never used any of the Schluter products...so I'm going to give them a whirl.

Notice that all my questions are Ditra or Kerdi related. It's not like I'm asking what a notched trowel is! Just trying to figure out the deal with the Schluter products...

Just askin' for some friendly advice

orson

The Kerdi Shower Book -- eBook download


This will tell you everything you need to know for 10 bucks, well worth the price.

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Lancaster Remodeling Contractor - Lancaster Remodeling
Kitchen & Bath Remodeling PA- Bathroom Remodeling Lancaster PA
Custom Kitchen Remodeling PA - Ruby Construction FaceBook-Lancaster Bathroom Remodeling

Double-A

Keep plugging Tommy and keep asking. These guys are not as hard assed as they seem. Well, Bud is, and so is Bill Vincent, and...

They'll get around to answering your questions if you keep providing information and answering theirs. They just hate to see when a good tile job goes bad.

I think one of Bud's oldest tiles jobs is doing time for armed robbery or something... they are just trying to spare you the pain and shame of visiting day.

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"My clients’ wishes are the center of my attention." -- David Guido, a contractor in Woodstock, N.Y.
New York Times, July 20, 2006

Bud Cline

THAT RIGHT THAR is the biggest problem with the tile installation industry.

HGTV, Lowe's, Home Depot, Ty (frigging) Pennington, all those numb nut operators want everyone to think there is nothing to this stuff. Everybody and their cat is installing tile these days because no-talent people say there is nothing to it.

The truth is...there is nothing to it, if you don't give a chit about the results or the life of the installation. The questions are necessary for us to provide answers that will result in a class performance by someone that has no idea what they are doing to begin with and someone who believes every word those charltons spit out on TV.

There are just too many variables and lazy people out there to do it any other way.

"It's too hard", "Removal is out of the question", Unmodifed is cheaper I'll just use that on my porcelain installation", "how do I get this black stuff off my concrete?", "why can't I use wall tile for my entry floor?", "I'm going to build my very first tile shower all by myself, tell me everything I need to know about how to do it and say it in the order it must be done", "where do I get that blue stuff?", "somebody sold me some cheap tile and now I have mold everywhere'.

Successful tile installations are no accident.

NOW, Tommy....WTF do you want?

Tommy C

LOL, Bud you venting a little there!

I can understand that you tile guys are a little sensitive, because a lot of "Joe Homeowners" think they can do it.

I know more about tile installations than you think, but I've never really done a shower surround. I think I helped my uncle out with one when I was a teenie bopper, but that was before the Schluter systems, and I think I only helped him grout.

I'm all about doing things the right way...and I think I've got this one covered. Thanks for the advice and feedback, gents.

Bud Cline

YES!!!
Thank you for giving me the opportunity.