Shower Pan

C.C.R.

Hey guys, I'm getting ready to go back to a tile job that was postponed from last summer. Here's what I got. I took over the job after the HO fired the hack that started it. In the bath we have a tiled shower with a curb. The plumber already fabricated and installed a copper pan (I hadn't even built the curb yet. I know there's alot of talk about tiled showers going on right now but I have a few specific questions of my own and don't want to hijack someone elses thread. I've done plenty of tile on floors and walls over the years but never did a tiled shower floor. I was planning on a 3" - 4.5" high curb. the copper pan is about 8" high. I don't know why. I did my research and have the basics down ie; 1/4" slope on the pre-slope slight slope on top of the curb 15lb felt behind the 1/2" durarock. I'll be doing a mud bed as the shower(according to the plumbers pan) is an oddly shaped corner unit (one leg is about 2' long, one is about 9" long and then the 45* is about 2.5' long.

one major question I have maybe a local question. I came across this product called "Redguard waterproofing" it's a liquid that is painted or trowelled on taking the place of the rubber membrane. Has anyone ever used a product like this? and is it reliable?

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Bud Cline

Jeeezh man!

The copper pan IS the membrane. All you need is one cast of cement sloping at the rate of 1/4" per running foot. You won't have the benefit of a preslope on this one unless the copper has been sloped. You should probably do a lot more research before you get yourself into trouble.

What else?

C.C.R.

Thanks for the reply Bud, that's why I'm asking about it. I know the pan needs to have 1/4" per foot slope(as I stated in original message). That's the whole problem I'm having with the plumbers copper pan IT'S NOT SLOPED and the floor is definately not level. So my question is should I just pretend it isn't even there. And just do my pre slope and then another membrane over that.

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Bud Cline

Isn't the copper attached to the drain now?

How would you "do your own thing" and still attach the drain at the weep holes?

I'm thinkin' the first thing to do is run.
The next thing to do is back away from any leak warranties since the pan isn't yours.
After that, put in your slope and tile the sucker and get the hell out of there.

Next time, insist on doing your own receptor from the ground up and quit screwin' with these plumber installed pans that you will be held responsible for down the road when something goes to hell.

troubleseeker

We used Redguard on the walls (durock) on one job a while back. It was really messy to work with IMO, and I can't really speak to whether or not is worth the effort or how effective it really is, as it is the only time I ever used it.

But I'm leaning towards Bud Cline's thoughts here. I don't think I would want to take on the responsibility for what sounds like a pretty poor copper pan installation by someone else. Why not just trash the pan and do it from sub floor yourself, that way you know what you are accepting responsibility for. If customer won't accept that, say no thanks and move on, because no matter how much you tell them that you are not comfortable with the existing pan installation, they will hold you responsible for any future leaks, not the guy you have already described as a hack. After tearing out so many old showers with disintegrated copper pans, I don't know why anyone still uses it instead of the membranes anyway.

C.C.R.

yeah, I don't even know why he put the copper pan in anyway. The curb hasn't been framed or anything. Well I do understand WHY he put it in(because he wanted to get his inspection). I'm going to look a little more closely at what he used for a drain. You need one with weep holes, right? He didn't know or attempt to slope the pan so who's to say he used the right drain?

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Graeson

This may just be me, but I would give the client the option of either letting (paying) me to redo the pan or have them sign off that I'm not resposible for leakage in the event of a failure... I simply don't do a shower on someone else's pan unless they sign off on it, and even then I hesitate...

Good Luck

C.C.R.

Thanks for all the help guys, I looked more closely at the drain and found, not only is the pan not sloped, the drain is about 3/16" higher than the pan(not a clamping drain.) I'm going to rip out the plumbers pan and start from scratch. I would still be interested to hear what guys like best for waterproofing?

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kevjob

waterproofing where on the walls? if so I have used redgard on walls over cbu for years. i like kerdi better but way more money.

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Kevin
Basement Finishing Highlands Ranch Colorado
Littleton Colorado, Basement Remodeling
Kitchen Remodeling Denver

C.C.R.

mainly I'm talking about on top of the preslope. And over the curb. But I actualy came across Redgaurd the otherday. But have never used it is it reliable?(what about coming apart at the seams of the wonderboard?)

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Bud Cline

Do yourself a favor and use the Schluter Systems Shower Kit - end of problem.

HJ1

Dont use redgard for a shower pan. Bud's kerdi suggestion is the best way to go. Check out the Schluter website. Also see this link for how a shower pan is built from subfloor up.

http://www.ontariotile.com/preslope.html

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HJ