Russell Contracting, Gettysburg PA - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Eric Russell · 09-22-2009, 06:45 AM

Hello all, has anyone had any dealings with 'Direct Buy'? One of my customers has purchased some ceramic tile from them and they told him that they are to be installed without grout. After much research on-line the general consensus is that they have to be installed with grout. They look very much like hard wood and grout will certainly take away that look. Does anyone have any suggestions? ....lol and don't say "install hardwood" lol

Cdat · 09-22-2009, 07:04 AM

Wrong forum. I'd suggest you take this to the DIY talk forum. You'll just be mauled asking a question like that here.

Eric Russell · 09-22-2009, 07:34 AM

Does that mean you don't know? I seriously doubt anyone with any sence will 'maul' unless they have no life........

CookeCarpentry · 09-22-2009, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Russell

Does that mean you don't know? I seriously doubt anyone with any sence will 'maul' unless they have no life........

You'd be surprised - when someone comes on here and their first post is a how much or how to question....

How-to questions are for the DIY forum - but if you are a professional contractor, fill out your profile and post an introduction and try asking again.

olzo55 · 09-22-2009, 01:00 PM

Eric,
I have put some in before. The tile was 4"x36". floor must be FLAT for a good tile job.
Regarding grout: whose the pro here; you or Direct Buy salesperson? What do you think will fill those open joints when food/soda/dirt/wash water get in the room? Just ask the homeowner what they would prefer, grout or food crumbs.
Also, grout fills any voids under the tile as you should know.

olzo

wizendwizard · 09-22-2009, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olzo55

Eric,
I have put some in before. The tile was 4"x36". floor must be FLAT for a good tile job.
Regarding grout: whose the pro here; you or Direct Buy salesperson? What do you think will fill those open joints when food/soda/dirt/wash water get in the room? Just ask the homeowner what they would prefer, grout or food crumbs.
Also, grout fills any voids under the tile as you should know.

olzo

???

CookeCarpentry · 09-22-2009, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olzo55

Also, grout fills any voids under the tile as you should know.

wizendwizard · 09-22-2009, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CookeCarpentry

What??? You knew that , right??? lol

CookeCarpentry · 09-22-2009, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wizendwizard

What??? You knew that , right??? lol

Umm...cough, cough...ahem...yea.......of course I did....

wizendwizard · 09-22-2009, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Russell

Hello all, has anyone had any dealings with 'Direct Buy'? One of my customers has purchased some ceramic tile from them and they told him that they are to be installed without grout. After much research on-line the general consensus is that they have to be installed with grout. They look very much like hard wood and grout will certainly take away that look. Does anyone have any suggestions? ....lol and don't say "install hardwood" lol

Ok, i'm going to address this in this manner only. There are tiles out there that do not require grout. I will not tell how they are to be installed. I am just confirming there are tile that don't get grouted.

CookeCarpentry · 09-22-2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wizendwizard

Ok, i'm going to address this in this manner only. There are tiles out there that do not require grout. I will not tell how they are to be installed. I am just confirming there are tile that don't get grouted.

How do you deal with any voids under the tile then?

wizendwizard · 09-22-2009, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CookeCarpentry

How do you deal with any voids under the tile then?

3 part fecal matter of a bull, 1 part H2O

CookeCarpentry · 09-22-2009, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wizendwizard

3 part fecal matter of a bull, 1 part H2O

That is where all my floors have failed...I have been doing a 2 to 1 mix.

wizendwizard · 09-22-2009, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CookeCarpentry

That is where all my floors have failed...I have been doing a 2 to 1 mix.

Just avoid 4 part dry mix, thats pure "BS".

olzo55 · 09-22-2009, 02:18 PM

ok wiz, what tiles are you talking about? Eric wants to tile a floor I presume. So you're saying that he shouldn't need grout. Let's get your take on this.
Olzo

wizendwizard · 09-22-2009, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olzo55

ok wiz, what tiles are you talking about? Eric wants to tile a floor I presume. So you're saying that he shouldn't need grout. Let's get your take on this.
Olzo

Please refer to my post #10

angus242 · 09-22-2009, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Russell

After much research on-line the general consensus is that they have to be installed with grout. They look very much like hard wood and grout will certainly take away that look.

Well I did look you up and saw your site on SM so you're an official contractor. However, as others have noticed, your question is a bit strange for someone that is marketing themselves as a tile contractor.

Let me start with I actually have done exactly what you're asking about so I feel pretty qualified to answer your question. Before that, let's jump back a bit.

Not sure how close Philly is to you but there is a restaurant called Famous Daves that has 3 locations there. They decorate their dining areas with 6" x 24" tiles that your asking about. They use grout. If you can, visit one and get a first hand look at them.

Now, laying tile without grout is highly NOT advisable. The NTCA recommends always using grout. They are actually pushing for large grout joints, not smaller. As man-made tile gets larger and larger, it harder to keep installations flat. Grout joints help diminish the appearance of lippage. I don't care how perfectly flat a subfloor is, you cannot install ceramic tile without lippage. Man-made tile is NEVER perfectly flat.

Now to address my hypocrisy. Yes, I did do a 6" x 24" hardwood look-a-like ceramic install without grout joints. The HO loved it. I got paid. That said, I did have to use some grout. There was no way, even with rectified tile, to have perfectly butted joints. There also was lippage. I minimized it as much as possible but there was no way to avoid it. The HO actually liked it because they thought it looked more like an old hardwood installation. Whatever. It also took me 2 weeks to do a 20' x 10' area. I will never do it again and I HIGHLY discourage you doing it also. My situation was totally unique and I suppose, I was lucky too.

Do yourself a HUGE favor, don't do the grout-less install. I have no idea what kind of "research" you did but coming from someone who's actually done it, DON'T DO IT.

And tell the dork from DB to go eff himself.

wizendwizard · 09-22-2009, 02:34 PM

Anyone seen the "Dyson Vacumm" ad on TV. There is a 9" x 12" tiled kitchen that is ungrouted on that commercial. Perfect example of how crappy this senario looks.

Thanks Angus, I wasn't going to reveal the but joint method. Now that it's out thats should be all thats needed. Yes, grout is still advised to conseal lippage. I really wish people could understand that term when i'm doing a tile install.

Cdat · 09-22-2009, 04:54 PM

10 by 20 in 2 weeks? How much did you earn per hour after that?

angus242 · 09-22-2009, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cdat

10 by 20 in 2 weeks? How much did you earn per hour after that?

Well a little more complicated than just the one room (kitchen). A hallway, 2 closets and a powder room too. I charged hourly for the tile job because I had never done that before (in a herringbone pattern) and the customer was very cool about it. I wouldn't do a full 8 hours per day, usually just diagonal across the room and stop.

Like I said, I learned a lot, the customer was happy and I got paid. However, NEVER again.