RedGard & Thinset

 
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Old 01-27-2011, 10:07 PM   #1
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RedGard & Thinset


I don't get it why does redguard recomend modified thinset but kerdi recomends setting tile with non modified both are waterproof membranes so air can't get to the thinset but through the grout joints which is why kerdi recomends non modified right?
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Old 01-27-2011, 10:27 PM   #2
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Re: RedGard & Thinset


Modified thinset needs air to dry. Non modified doesn't.

If you have a piece of porcelain over Kerdi, the thinset is sandwiched between 2 fairly impermeable layers. Modified thinset can take a few days to dry under those conditions. That's why Schluter recommends non modified.

As you can see, all other membranes say modified is OK.

I just follow the manufacturer's recommended installation methods for whatever product I'm using. Hard to mess up that way.

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Old 01-27-2011, 10:53 PM   #3
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Re: RedGard & Thinset


Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebird5
I don't get it why does redguard recomend modified thinset but kerdi recomends setting tile with non modified both are waterproof membranes so air can't get to the thinset but through the grout joints which is why kerdi recomends non modified right?
We are doing a test over polished concrete right now , because I have the same doubts with the manufacturers literature. 5 full bodied porcelain tiles set with a non modified mortar, set on polished concrete. 24 hours the first tile popped from the surface of the porcelin. In three days we r going to pop another. I want to see how well a porcelin product bonds to a non modified product. Its all about dry time with schluter. It goes against everything I've been taught to use non modified on pocelin, but we will see . Keep u posted on the results
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Old 01-27-2011, 11:36 PM   #4
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Re: RedGard & Thinset


Groutface-- I went through the same skepticism the first time I used Ditra. In fact, I had to get Bryant Bouchard (our area rep) to give me something in writing specifically saying that if tile started popping as a result of the unmodified thinset, that they'd cover full removal and replacement costs. That was in 2004, and since then I've been back to this same house to do two other areas, as well as doing kitchen backsplashes for the wife's mother and three friends. If there was a problem with this kitchen floor, I'd know about it.

It makes no sense that an impervious surface such as porcelain would stick to unmodified thinset, but it does. It can't be the 5.00 a bag stuff, though. It has to be the next step up. For example, at Lowes, there are two unmodified thinsets from LAticrete-- one is called floor adhesive (5.00 a bag), and the other, Megabond (their 317, at 10.98 a bag). I've set literally thousands of feet with the Megabond, or 317 (from Daltile) over Ditra with no failures.

As for why they demand unmodified, and everyone else says modified for their waterproofing membranes, that I can't tell you. I can't figure it out, either. I've asked Bryant about it, and his reply basically boils down to we're right, and everyone else is wrong.
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Old 01-28-2011, 01:36 PM   #5
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Re: RedGard & Thinset


have any of you tried non modified with redguard? did you have successful results?
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Old 01-28-2011, 01:38 PM   #6
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Re: RedGard & Thinset


No. Like I said, I just follow what the manufacturer recommends. They want modified; I'll use Kerabond/Keralastic, LFT or Ultraflex 2. They want non-modified, I use Kerabond.
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:11 PM   #7
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Re: RedGard & Thinset


Quote:
Originally Posted by angus242
No. Like I said, I just follow what the manufacturer recommends. They want modified; I'll use Kerabond/Keralastic, LFT or Ultraflex 2. They want non-modified, I use Kerabond.
I like the Mapei consistency in your comment I use mapei products on 90% of my jobs.....my comment earlier is just a test we r doing for a major supplier in ontario. I have used ditra numerous times and my installation method is this.1. Install schluter as per manufacturer recomendations. 2.Fill the dovetails with a modified.3. Come back the next day and install with modified. 4 .
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:12 PM   #8
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Re: RedGard & Thinset


Then grout after min 24 hours...
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:15 PM   #9
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Re: RedGard & Thinset


Quote:
Originally Posted by Groutface
Then grout after min 24 hours...
I'm not saying anyone elses way is wrong ,its just the way I do it. When I brought this method to our schluter rep, he said he has no quams with this method but he preffered unmodified....thumbsup!
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:18 PM   #10
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Re: RedGard & Thinset


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Originally Posted by Groutface View Post
I'm not saying anyone elses way is wrong ,its just the way I do it. When I brought this method to our schluter rep, he said he has no quams with this method but he preffered unmodified....thumbsup!
Did you ask if he would warranty that type of install?
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:35 PM   #11
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Re: RedGard & Thinset


The official reply I have received from Schluter is they will only warranty installs with non-modified or self-curing thinsets (including rapid set) over Ditra.
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:47 PM   #12
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Re: RedGard & Thinset


Quote:
Originally Posted by angus242 View Post
The official reply I have received from Schluter is they will only warranty installs with non-modified or self-curing thinsets (including rapid set) over Ditra.
Same thing I have heard

I guess certain Schluter territories warranty all modified installs....
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Old 01-28-2011, 05:42 PM   #13
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Re: RedGard & Thinset


Quote:
I like the Mapei consistency in your comment I use mapei products on 90% of my jobs.....
333/317, 253, and 4XLT. (I also like the 255)

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Old 01-28-2011, 05:43 PM   #14
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Re: RedGard & Thinset


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill_Vincent View Post
333/317, 253, and 4XLT. (I also like the 255)

Bill, how come no 272? Isn't that a step up from 317?
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Old 01-28-2011, 05:47 PM   #15
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Re: RedGard & Thinset


272 is modified. It's the equivalent of Mapei's Ultraflex I. If I want strictly unmodified I'll use the 317, or from Lowes, the Megabond (same thing).
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Old 01-28-2011, 05:58 PM   #16
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Re: RedGard & Thinset


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill_Vincent View Post
272 is modified.
Um, I don't think so.

http://www.laticrete.com/contractors...ductid/32.aspx
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Last edited by angus242; 01-28-2011 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 01-28-2011, 07:15 PM   #17
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Re: RedGard & Thinset


Quote:
Originally Posted by angus242

Bill, how come no 272? Isn't that a step up from 317?
Not sure how true this is but around my area all the suppliers are saying that Laticrete is stopping production on 272 and 317 is the substitute...? Ill just label that hear/say for now.
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Old 01-28-2011, 07:27 PM   #18
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Re: RedGard & Thinset


Quote:
Originally Posted by CookeCarpentry

Did you ask if he would warranty that type of install?
Never asked him ,overconfident maybe. I would probrbly say no. Straight rulebreaking doesn't fly well with manufacturers.(as u probrably know).
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Old 01-28-2011, 07:30 PM   #19
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Re: RedGard & Thinset


I've made my third and final thinset switch... last month I used some 272 and it was nice but after reading some info on this site... I checked the date on the bag and it was old... then I heard of the stopping production thing.
My local Dal is selling the Custom mat mortar and admix. I inquired with them about it and they are guaranteeing freshly produced thinset since they can't keep it on the shelf, so I guess that's good.
Grey. $9.25
White$10.50
Can't find a decent price for anything else around here, u gotta fill out a friggin credit app to get ditraset...smh
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Old 01-28-2011, 07:49 PM   #20
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Re: RedGard & Thinset


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech Dawg View Post
Not sure how true this is but around my area all the suppliers are saying that Laticrete is stopping production on 272 and 317 is the substitute...? Ill just label that hear/say for now.
I heard this too...though I have been using 317 for unmodified with 333 admix for modified for years now.

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