Proper Subfloor For Tile

kmd

I am getting ready to have my kitchen re-done. The kitchen currently has 1/2" plywood then 3/4" particle board with a vynl floor on top. The rest of the house has 1/2" plywood and 3/4" hardwood floors, so the kithcen floor is about level with the flooring in the rest of the house.

I want to put a tile floor down in the kitchen and would like the floors to be level with the rest of the house. What is the proper subflooring required for a tile floor?

Boogga

Without seeing the house and its levels, depends on the stiffness of the vinyl, nail and glue down fibro sheeting on top because this stuff doesn't move well when/if wet. Then lay your ceramic tiles on top. If the vinyl is hollow in places underneath, I'd remove it and then put the fibro and tiles on. What ever you do, you probably will have a small step from the tiles to the floor in the remainder of the house, so use a decorative edging to finish it off. Hope I helped.

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rservices

get ride of the particial board, you cant use it, make up the differance with hardy backer, or anouther type or cement board. read the instructions. Most people dont notice that you need to put a lyer of thinset between the cement board and the other subfloor

Mike Finley

El Ditto.

reveivl

If you get rid of the particle board, which is a good idea, you're gonna need another layer of plywood to stiffen up the floor for tile. (at least 5/8") 1/2" is not enough support.

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MattCoops

how bout 3/4" ply sub with 1/4" cement backboard underlayment
with the thinset under tile it gives you your TCA recommended inch and an eigth before tile

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Matt with Cupan Custom Tile & Paint of Lowell, Massachusetts
Design and installation of ceramic tile and natural stone for floor, wall, and countertops
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HJ1

The only way you could get the height of the tiled floor to be the same as the finished hardwood floors would be to remove the vinyl, particle board and 1/2" subfloor down to the joists. 1/2" plywood is not enough on its own to support any tile installation. If your gonna leave the 1/2" subfloor, add another 5/8" of bc or better exterior plywood. This gets screwed to the plywood subfloor only. Avoid screwing into the joists as best you can. Screw pattern should be every 8" in the field and 6" around the edges. Stagger the plywood seams so they do not line up with the subfloor seams. After that you can use a membrane like CIS or ditra to minimize height. Youre finished tile floor will probably be around a half inch higher this way. Not the end of the world. Keep in mind that if your installing natural stone, youll need 2 layers of plywood even if you remove everything down to the joists.

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HJ

J&J Home Imp.

HJ1, why do you try not to hit the joists when screwing the 2nd ply down?

jproffer

Same reason you don't when you're putting the concrete board down...Decoupling. You want the joists to move freely of the plywood (especially the second layer) and ESPECIALLY of the tile (hence, the CBU, since it and the tile will be, in effect, one solid peice).

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Jim P.

Rich Turley

When the 2nd layer of ply is screwed to the joists it is directly affected by any movement in the joists. Screwing to subfloor only helps to reduce movement in the joists from transfering directly to the 2nd layer of ply.

Rich

JazMan

Hi all,

When I registered the other day I thought I read someplace that this forum is for professional only. (Although I'm sure many DIY'ers stay in the background lurking to learn how to). If it is for pros, how come half of the answers to this thread are wrong? Does that mean that we can be pros in a trade trade, but still give advice in another that we have little knowledge about?

Just asking because when someone gives bad recommendations, those that don't know are likely to believe it anyway 'cause it's writen right here in black and white and it must be so.

Jaz

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KERDI Shower
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dougchips

Look around the site, everyone has the correct way of doing things. SOme methods vary for differnent parts of the country. Look at tonights thread on OSB, some swear by it and others know the truth That is why we are here to share and learn.

HJ1

Jaz

If theres bad info here, by all means feel free to let everyone know. Thats how we all learn.

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HJ

JazMan

Ok, so that this thread doesn't just die, keeping many confussed and worried whether they should answer again, I will point out what I think is incorrect information or just lacking a bit. Please do not get offended, but I think it's important to give good info. I'm assuming those that gave wrong info are not tile setters and were just trying to help. I know most here are pros in some trade or another, and no one can know everything.

#2 Wrong because he mentions it may be ok to leave the vinyl in place if it's stiff enough. Vinyl and it's underlayment should be removed. What is fibro? Are you thinking of something like HardiBacker or another CBU?

#3 The advice to remove the particleboard is good, but not to install Hardi or cement board over the original 1/2" ply. If you install CBU over 1/2" ply you're gonna have some issues.

#4 I just think you got lazy on this one and just agreed. Love your site and sounds like you do great work.

#6 The method of installing another 3/4" ply with 1/4" CBU over is a good thing. But the info that TCA recommends 1 1/8 of plywood for this method is not correct, although the more plywood you can install the better.

KMD, you should not choose an installation method so that there will be little or no elevation difference at the transition. Always choose the best method for the situation and then make the apropriate transition at the threshold. You shouldn't expect other floors such as vinyl, hardwood or carpet to be the same thickness as ceramic.


Jaz

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Forry

Y'all listen to jazman about this one, he knows what he's talking about. Also, if you want more good tile info, visit the "John Bridge Tile Forum". Don't know how to link it, but it's THE source for tile info.

R&D Tile

http://www.floorstransformed.com/cer...le/page_1.html

http://johnbridge.com/vbulletin/index.php

JMG1959

We rarely use backer board anymore. 1 1/8" Sturdy Board with Fiber tape for the Joints and a Red Guard application seems to work good for us.

R&D Tile

DITRA