Pricing Structure For Tile

Mike Finley

I think in the last 4 years I've had a sub look at a job before we had a signed contract with the customers, maybe twice. But that's also because we are doing the same work over and over again and I have systems in place to calculate my subs costs pretty closely.

Total price.

bwalley

I don't bid my jobs to clients by the square foot either but subs will either give me a square foot price or an all inclusive price, then I use my subs numbers to come up with my selling price to the client.

Trying to figure out how much per ft2 labor the guy is getting paid,
Labor for a basic 3x4 shower should start at about or just under 2k, plus all materials, plus any demo, plus any corner dishes, any plumbing work, etc.

The issue the OP had was the tile setter was continually bumping up his prices, after the jobs had been started, that is not the time to increase the price unless the scope of work has changed.

I have had subs pull this crap and I let them know that I will work with them if I can but that once I sell the job and the work begins it is not the time to try and get more money, and I have sent many a sub packing over the continual nickle and diming.

IHI

Since we do keep alot of work in house (cept the work we cant do legally) i know what rates are since i know how long each aspect takes in a partitcular application, and based on the hundreds of jobs subs have done similar work...so usually i dont have subs on site, i know what these job would cost sub wise, i just upsell it to cover my butt. BUT, in circumstances that are out of the norm, I always bring the guys in so i'm not making blind assumptions...but again, we handle everything from footings to roof peaks and everything in between so we have alot more places for variables vs 1 room per say. You know what i'm getting at we've done plenty of bathrooms in cheap budget scope that i know what my plumber charges for all new fixtures/fixture changes...but truth be told, we've uncovered some crazy things that would'nt be covered in the original bid...but again, this is where change orders come in, and clauses in the contract are there to cover me and the subs butts.

My only problem now is the OP who has been around this for as long as he supposedly has is trying asking newbie questions about the most basic aspect of contracting.

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AtlRemodeling

Actually bwalley the issue was between jobs. In other words, I would go over the layout for the job we were bidding, the price was agreed upon and the work was done at that rate. The next time we were going over a job something additional would be included that was not included on the last job. Again the job would be bid at his rates and he would bill me at that rate. This repeated several times each time with something else being included.

Never was it a problem with a difference between the bid price and the billed price.

The issue with the thinset was not related to his supplying materials or the HO supplying materials as he has always supplied thinset and did on this job as well. He still has not been exactly clear on his reasons behind the thinset comment to the HO.

charimon

The Key term here is "BASIC" basic is no upgrades, no mortar bed, no roll-on water proofers, no schluter. this is what most builders want here in Omaha
A "basic" shower would be one that has a shower base in place.

Dens for the walls .

Thin set for the mortar.

Strait set or brick 12 x 12 3/16 joints.

Owner/ gc has the tile and grout already there.

No demo

Walls are ready to set backer.

I charge $850 for the set and $150 for the backer (dens and screws included) I am in and out in a short day and a morning. as far as being upstairs or not it dosen't matter, a "basic" shower does not use a wet saw enough to make any issues. with my tarping methods and the trailer setup and the tool orginization. i can be installing in under15 min.

I could make you a Tutorial Video what should I charge.

Got one of a not so basic bathroom Video but that isn't the point.
Here is my you tube channel and you can see for your self if I am kind to do things Half assed. http://www.youtube.com/user/mintfreshman.

Craig

Bud Cline

Says WHO???

I did subcontract tile installations for (among others) one in particular tile store for fourteen years. For fourteen of those fourteen years the owner hounded me for a price list. I never gave him one. Why? Because he had proven time and time again to me that he was in it for himself and that he was a money-grubbing idiot.

He never could look at a job and pick out the obstacles and price a job accordingly or fairly.

Each and every job I do is different. There are no duplicates. But then again I rarely run into a shower that is only 3' X 4'. Those are awful small showers.

I use Schluter Systems products. This is the only way to go in my opinion and Schluter Systems produces a state of the art shower facility with less manual labor than any other erectable system that doesn't use slab walls.

My basic charge is $200 per square foot of footprint. I'll do most anything the customer wants for that $200 as far as wall tile and ceiling, wall features, and complete tiled receptor. That price does not include tile or grout. That price (also) does not include benches, niches, corner shelves, soap dishes, or more than four holes in the walls for the water controls and features. (The one I'm doing now has 22 holes in the walls at $25 per hole.)

For this price I deal with stupid plumbers that attach my drain pipe tight to the floor joists, stupid carpenters that leave random reversed crowned lumber in the walls and build out-of square showers, stupid electricians that don't know a vapor-proof light fixture from cheese soup, and dumb-ass designers that think it's OK to mix 1/8" thick tile with 3/8" thick tile on the same wall.

And some of you guys want a fixed price for now and forever? BALONEY!

I have no idea where so many of you guys are finding cookie-cutter showers. They just don't exist anywhere that I know of.

Each job is different (did I say that already) and each job brings new surprises and joy for a tile installer.

You guys that won't let your tile subs look at a job before he prices it are dealing with installers that don't know how to look out for themselves. Have them call me - I can fix that pretty damned quick.

This store owner I spoke of wanted to be able to close a sale on his showroom floor without ever seeing the work site. THAT is to no one's benefit but his own. I can appreciate where he is coming from but won't participate in the foolery. You tile sub guys reading this that don't take the time to look at each and every job before you quote it are screwing yourselves and you know it.

Most of my quotes are done from plans before a foundation hole is ever dug in the ground and I make it perfectly clear at that time to any prospect that my first quote is for budgetary purposes only and that things may change when the sticks go up.

Once I have secured the contract I visit the jobsite many times in an effort to head off any problems relating to my participation down the road. We all work together with a happy customer being everyone's ultimate goal.

It took me a long time to train these generals and electricians and plumbers around here.

charimon

Bud about 100 mile east and you will find 85% cookie cutter showers actually more like tub surrounds. They are all the same and they are bread and butter work. I make as good hourly on these as I do setting on Eagle run and Regency here in Omaha. the reason is they are Basic.


One of the Benifits coming from a location like Hastings (I grew up on a prosperous farm in Scottsbluff) is that builders are men who have built their reputations over the last 20+ years. and craftsmen are known through the WHOLE community.. here the builders are corporations Celeberty, Harthstone, and no one even knows tho the installers are. You have a stagnate (when compared to Lincoln or Omaha) population who takes stock in these reputations. In Scottsbluff a home cannot be considered "fine" unless it is all brick and if it is not built by ******x, or Yyyyyyyy then it is not top notch. I am Guessing Hastings, Grand Island and Kearney all have their own metrics. The farmer/ gentry who builds his house, waits till he can afford it (often times cash) and then wants nothing but the Best in it. That is, sadly, rarely the case here. You have managed to carve a niche in a unique market and that is great. It is not the case in most urban settings, and that is why

"I have no idea where so many of you guys are finding cookie-cutter showers. They just don't exist anywhere that I know of. "



Craig

Bud Cline

Craig I know you are correct which is why I stay here. I basically do nothing but "whole-house" projects (more tile than carpet). One of the builders I work with is celebrating his forty-second year of home building, another has been doing it for thirty years, another twenty-five years. Fly-by-night-builders are are quickly discovered here and don't last very long.

On average my projects take about eight weeks, the last one, I was on-site for most of six months off and on. The next one is being erected now and will be ready when I finish the one I am working on now. Don't know how long it will last but I have stayed busy in this area for sixteen years with little down time. I don't advertise other than my name is on my trucks but no phone number, they seek me out. I use yard signs and they are my only other form of advertising. I like it!

Mike Finley

Not true at all. If it was the case my tile setters would present evidence of resistance instead of appreciation.

Pearce Services

My first tile jobs were bid at the "going rate", which at the time was $3/sf, it didnt matter if it was a big job, or small job, lots of cuts, or a large square room, I lost on most jobs because i didnt cover my costs. Lessens learned....

So now I use a spread sheet for all jobs, it includes production rates, based on Manhours/square foot, it is adjusted for complex patterns, materials, room size, and number of cuts. This spread sheet although more profitable, was still costing me money on certain types of projects, So I added for thresholds, fixtures, hanging the walls, waterproofing, caulking, niches, benches, etc.

I now have a rather detailed way to cover myself so that I do not loose on any jobs, unless I make a mistake. My point is that your tile sub was giving away profit, and maybe even loosing money because he carried no provisions for cetain things. Good for him to realize that he needs to be compensated for all things that cost him time or money.

It sounds like he is evolving his pricing to stay profitable. If his pricing is up front, and you know before he starts, you accept his price, then there is no foul. If he starts to cry about needing extra for certain things, you need to refer to your agreement to see if it is justified.

Your installer including Thinset in his price should be automatic, but it should also be included within the total cost of the job, not a cost of providing labor that in turn must be absorbed by the labor on the project. Using someone elses opinion on what adhesives to use, and how long that product has been sitting on a shelf, sounds like a very bad business practice.

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