Pre-mixed Thinset Mortar

 
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Old 11-28-2009, 09:31 PM   #1
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Pre-mixed Thinset Mortar


Anybody use this stuff, results, seen it used, results? what say you besides going off on a tangent saying it's junk and DIY related garbage.

I ask because a guy i know that is a flooring sub posted on his facebook he's been using this stuff on all his floor tile installs and loves it, so i qustioned it and he telling me it's better because the compression rating is 790 vs typical dry mix thin set mortar that has a compression rating of 700.

I have my own opinions, but you tile guys are going to have a better grasp of the latest greatest products available, so maybe i'm the idiot?

looking forward to any info you guys have/real life stories.
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Old 11-28-2009, 11:44 PM   #2
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Re: Pre-mixed Thinset Mortar


First it is not compression strength that is the issue, it is shear strength.

Secondly it is more expensive and less flexible (for the installer) than bags

winter is coming and you cant let it freze.

you cant add thickness as this will void warrenty if applied too thick.

if you are setting large format porcelain the dry time is like 2 days before grouting

you cant use most of them for showerfloors
many are not recommended for Wet areas.

besides pulling mortar from a bucket is a total pain in the hiney.

Custom recomends using a 1/4 x3/8 notch for 12x 12" and over, that is often not enough in my opinion.

Most everything i set these days is with 1/2 x1/2 notch and I have come to really like Custom Pro Lite. It is like Tec 3n1 or Mapei Ultralite only a bit cheaper.
it also seems to have a bit longer potlife. what i really like about it is it allows from thin to medium beds in one product. you can build out perfectly plumb walls, or if you have a floor that is wavy (Concrete) you can make it flat during installation.

Just my thots on mortars

Craig

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Old 11-29-2009, 12:01 AM   #3
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Re: Pre-mixed Thinset Mortar


Quote:
Originally Posted by IHI View Post
what say you besides going off on a tangent saying it's junk and DIY related garbage.
Its made for HO's
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Old 11-29-2009, 12:17 AM   #4
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Re: Pre-mixed Thinset Mortar


What TulsaRemodeler said.

It's mastic with sand in it. If subjected to a significant amount of water it will re-emulsify and lose it's adhesion properties.

Think about it (or anything in a bucket) like this: Placing a porcelain tile over this stuff is just like putting the lid back on the bucket. It will never fully cure since air is required.

Powdered thinset, on the other hand, cures through a chemical process.

Only thing it's good for is a free bucket.
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Old 11-29-2009, 12:28 AM   #5
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Re: Pre-mixed Thinset Mortar


Quote:
Originally Posted by TileArt View Post
What TulsaRemodeler said.

It's mastic with sand in it. If subjected to a significant amount of water it will re-emulsify and lose it's adhesion properties.

Think about it (or anything in a bucket) like this: Placing a porcelain tile over this stuff is just like putting the lid back on the bucket. It will never fully cure since air is required.

Powdered thinset, on the other hand, cures through a chemical process.

Only thing it's good for is a free bucket.
Aside from the fact that its not a cement product, who is too lazy to mix up the real stuff? Thats the least of the work.
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Old 11-29-2009, 10:14 AM   #6
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Re: Pre-mixed Thinset Mortar


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Originally Posted by TulsaRemodeler View Post
who is too lazy to mix up the real stuff?
Me, that's what helpers are for.

Even if the premixed stuff did work as well as powder thinset what's the point in spending 3-4 times as much just to give the helper even more time to stand around? If you let your helper off the hook from mixing thinset, next thing you know he won't want to grout, prep or lug either. Then think of where you'll be.
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Old 11-29-2009, 12:51 PM   #7
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Re: Pre-mixed Thinset Mortar


Who thinks up this crap??

Are people really that lazy that they can't open a bag, combine it with water and mix it??
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Old 11-29-2009, 01:00 PM   #8
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Re: Pre-mixed Thinset Mortar


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Originally Posted by jarvis design View Post
Are people really that lazy that they can't open a bag, combine it with water and mix it??
Yes.
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Old 11-29-2009, 03:58 PM   #9
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Re: Pre-mixed Thinset Mortar


Yeah, I guess you got a point there!!
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Old 11-29-2009, 04:01 PM   #10
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Re: Pre-mixed Thinset Mortar


Most DIY'ers use it because it's easier and many are afraid of mixing it wrong. Some also like the idea of using a little of it then covering the bucket till the next time. It only works "good enough" for dry vertical installations, otherwise, yes it's junk.

BUT, there is no excuse for someone that takes money to install tile to use pre-mixed thin set or mastic on walls that can get wet or damp and especially on floors, any floor.

Give us his facebook address so we can save people from making a big mistake.

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Old 11-29-2009, 04:26 PM   #11
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Re: Pre-mixed Thinset Mortar


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Originally Posted by JazMan View Post
Give us his facebook address so we can save people from making a big mistake.

Jaz
There's my problem, i highlighted and posted exerps from the NTA "rules and provisions" that i found pertaining to it and explained why it was a bad idea, esspeically if he was planning to us it on jobs he was charging for, so i did voice my opinion on the matter, but i wont play part in destroying him image, I'll let his reputation do that for using the wrong materials do that for him....even though i have a hard time with guys like this doing things wrong/against the grain of professional practice which in turns makes us all look like schmucks...

I was just making sure i was'nt outta line for calling him out in front of all of our combined "freinds" on FB.
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Old 11-29-2009, 06:22 PM   #12
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Re: Pre-mixed Thinset Mortar


Quote:
Originally Posted by Charimon
Custom recomends using a 1/4 x3/8 notch for 12x 12" and over, that is often not enough in my opinion.

Most everything i set these days is with 1/2 x1/2 notch
Seriously? 1/2x1/2" for a 12x12 tile? That is a ridiculous amount of thinset for such a small tile.
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Old 11-29-2009, 07:12 PM   #13
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Re: Pre-mixed Thinset Mortar


Actually I do use the 1/2 x 1/2 for pretty much everything 12"x12" or larger

having enough mortar in the first place is the easiest way to insure 85+% coverage and a level set. Mortar is cheap compared to lipage.
of course this is also why I like the new "Lite" mortars which don't need the "thinset 3/32"ish" bond.


I was about to accuse you of not fully quoting me until i looked at my original post :sheepish grin: when i was editing i must of cut out the next sentence which read "which i adjust with the angle of the trowel."

And thanks for actually reading what i wrote and calling me on it.

Craig
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Old 12-07-2009, 04:53 PM   #14
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Re: Pre-mixed Thinset Mortar


Quote:
it's junk and DIY related garbage.

Exactly!!
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Old 12-13-2017, 11:46 AM   #15
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Re: Pre-mixed Thinset Mortar


I came across this thread while searching for dry-times on pre-mixed thin-set. I signed up to give some feedback perspective. I realize the thread is old... but just wanted to share my opinion. I am technically a contractor since I have an A/C technician license... but I only got it so I could legally buy R12 and R22 freon myself because I'm a cheap bastard and do everything myself.

So here's my views of the pre-mixed thin-set. I reluctantly agree with a lot of the things that have been said. I'm not a pro. I'd say I'm a weekend warrior that does projects that keeps me occupied every day after work for years. I'm on my second home renovation. I renovated my home in Florida just prior to moving (only got to live in it for 6 months) before I moved for work and rented it out, and now I'm renovating this other house I just bought, and I'm about half-way into it.

Having tiled an ENTIRE 2,400 square foot home... bathrooms and large open areas using pre-mixed, I'd have to say that there are some definite "down-sides."

I learned the hard-way that the pre-mixed is NOT good for shower floors. I experienced this the hard way. I laid sheets of smooth stone on the shower floor using the pre-mixed. Within a month, the thinset had re-emulsified and the little stones were moving. I ended up not using the shower for two weeks, then loaded it up with grout, and poured tile sealer (1/16" thick) pool of it all over the floor while covering the drain. 1 year later, still good. If it happens again, I'll have to send someone out to pull it all up and use real mortar.

For the most part, the thin-set has been pretty decent when laying the tile. When I had 12x24" tiles, it wasn't so bad, but when I stepped up to 18" tiles... I experienced the problem many of you guys are talking about. Literally took two weeks for the tiles to fully dry. I think in effect, the concrete below it had to "suck-up" the moisture. I'm reminded of one time when I had laid the tile where the fridge would go, and I rolled the fridge back into that location after a week and the tiles literally buckled and snapped under the fridge. I had to pull out my jack hammer again, and relay all new tile. The pre-mixed thinset was still "fresh" like it hadn't even dried slightly.

When it does dry, it's rock-hard... like the old thin set that I've been jack hammering up. I've since used it in the dining room, kitchen, and breakfast area of this new house. I also used it in a bathroom floor, and it's been good there (no shower floor).

When I do the main area of the house (this new house is 2,800 square feet), I'll probably used mixed.



The ONLY benefit that I can say exists from the pre-mixed... is if you are a home owner when Tulsa said it's for "HOs" (unless there are a special kind of escorts in Tulsa). It's useful to me because I may only have time to lay 4-5 rows of tile one night... on say, Tuesday, after work. Even on the weekends with family and kids, I don't get the opportunity to spend more than ~4 hours at a time working on the house.

So, hopefully that was helpful to anyone else that finds this thread.


Just DON'T use it on shower floors!!!

Last edited by 73vwtodd; 12-13-2017 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:30 AM   #16
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Re: Pre-mixed Thinset Mortar


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Originally Posted by 73vwtodd View Post
Just DON'T use it on shower floors!!!
Imagine the drying time on properly waterproofed shower walls.
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:51 PM   #17
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Re: Pre-mixed Thinset Mortar


Quote:
Originally Posted by 73vwtodd View Post
I am technically a contractor since I have an A/C technician license... but I only got it so I could legally buy R12 and R22 freon myself because I'm a cheap bastard and do everything myself.
No technically you're not a contractor, I just bought brake pads that doesn't make me a mechanic. Who's got a link to the DIY forum?

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