"MUD" - What Is It?

Bud Cline

Here's some information I posted to another ceramic tile site and I thought it would be beneficial to some people here also. Maybe it will help to clear up some confusion.


THINSET: is a form of tile adhesive, it comes two ways.
Modified and Unmodified, and those two ways also come in grey and white. There are more variations and more coming but this will give you the basic idea. Thinset is a portland cement type product.

MODIFIED THINSET: comes with all the necessary additives already in the bag and you add only water, nothing else. There are a variety of modified thinsets, as the price goes up the quality (additives) goes up.

UNMODIFIED THINSET: has no additives and you add water to it.
You can however include your own additives to make unmodified thinset into modified thinset and this method will result in a modified thinset that is in fact stronger than the basic modified thinset you buy in the bag.

DECK-MUD: is the cement product used to cast the preslope of a shower at 1/4" of slope per foot and also the final slope also at 1/4" per foot. It is made up of one part portland cement to four parts sand, nothing else. Usually you mix all of the components yourself.

FAT-MUD: is the same as 'deck-mud' but fat-mud also contains lime. Lime in the mixture is required for vertical surfaces such as curbs and dams and walls. Fat-mud is usually mixed at one part portland one part lime four parts sand and you mix all of the components yourself.

SANDMIX: is for these purposes the same thing as 'deck-mud' except you purchase sandmix already mixed in the bag, just ad water nothing else.

MORTAR MIX: is for these purposes the same thing as fat-mud except you purchase mortarmix already mixed in the bag, just add water nothing else. The lime is already there for you.

ADDITIVES: can be a variety of latexs or polymers or whatevers and they are usually product specific meaning they are only compatible with recommended products and shouldn't necessarily be mixed with other products helter-skelter whenever the moods strike.

SLC's (SELF LEVELLING COMPOUNDS): Have a very specific recipe and already contain all of the necessary additives. SLC's get mixed with a measured amount of water only and you never add anything else to the mix. You never tamper with SLC's.

PATCHING COMPOUNDS: are also available in a variety of mixes and are used to make repairs and corrections but usually only require water and they are formulated to stick and stay with the surface to which they are applied. Patching products come in both portland cement styles and gypsum styles. ONLY portland cement styles of patching compounds are suitable for ceramic tile projects. Gypsum based patching products should never be co-phased with tile installation setting materials. NEVER.

It is not wise to concoct your own recipes. Just because you have something left-over from before, to think that adding some foriegn additive to any powdered product will "beef-it-up" is foolish. In some cases this random mixing is totally counter-productive and will ruin the product and void its original purpose.

I know this is confusing information. All of the above products are unfortunately referred to as "MUD" in the tile trade. People familiar with the trade usually know which "mud" is being talked about depending on the phase the job is in.

When you refer to a particular product here please call it by its trade name not its generic name so we have some idea of what is being talked about.

-Bud Cline 5/06

__________________
TO OUR VALUED CUSTOMERS:
Please manage your children.
Any children unattended throughout the day
will be given a Free Mountain Due at our regular quiting time.

scubagreg

Can you answer why a contractor would build up 3 inches of mud? does this violate and codes?

R&D Tile

I've seen 4" of concrete in old brownstones, the only reason I can think off is to level a floor that is out that much, that's alot though.

Bud Cline

Probably the guy was looking to create some rigidity in the substrate. No code violations I'm aware of but there is added weight, in this case about 6 pounds per square foot if my math is correct but even at that it shouldn't be a problem depending on the structural criteria of the floor.

__________________
TO OUR VALUED CUSTOMERS:
Please manage your children.
Any children unattended throughout the day
will be given a Free Mountain Due at our regular quiting time.

ee3

12 lbs per sq. ft.per inch. thick

Teetorbilt

Dad mixed all of his own stuff back in the 40's through 70's. I wish that he had written down all of the formulas. So much has been lost!

__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

R&D Tile

Same mix today, Portland cement and sand, not much has changed through the years.

Teetorbilt

He had all of the proportions in his head and they were modified to application. The same with concrete and mortar.

I don't think that we ever mixed the same batch twice. He always accounted for everything. Temp, humidity, moisture in the product/surface, everything! Truely 'old school'. Used to put the ratios on cardboard for the mixers and sometimes change them 4 times a day.

__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

numbknees

hey bud
what's that other tile site you mentioned?

Bud Cline

You'll have to tell ADMIN over there that I sent you if you want a front-row seat. Seriously.

http://www.thefloorpro.com

Enjoy.

POOLMANinCT

can you define "hot mud"?

ty

mdshunk

It's a spa treatment women pay lots of money for. Other than that, it's the drywall finishing material that comes in bags that you mix yourself. It will have 20, 45, 90, etc on the bag as far as how "quick" it is.

POOLMANinCT

ty md but not the definition i was looking for..

its site-made mix w/ a ploymer used for quick cure...

& calcium is not used to hasten the cure.. any1 know the recipe?

ty
ray

Bud Cline

I have always referred to any quick-drying portland cement product as "hot mud".

Norrrrrrrrrrrrm

Haven't I seen some of you guys on floorstransformed.com?

Bud Cline

Yip!

Mud Master

Pool, I think your referring to "Poly-Mix". It's a 2 part concrete.When I was working for my father we used it to pour Piers for steel erected buildings. You mix one part of the bag, and another part that came in a can, like a gallon of paint would. Mix it fast and pour it in your form.

It's made for pours under 30 degrees. It can actually be poured to -15. Stuff sets up FAST, to the point it will literally burn you if you touch it during the first hour of curing. NEVER use it in the summer, you'll never get to the hard trowel unless you have 50 guys. It's additives make it set up way to fast.

I'm figuring thats what your talking about. Thats the only thing I can think of thats poly-mer w/ calcium for quick cure.

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10secondTone

when forming a shower pan. after initial deck mud to create slope 1/4 " per foor, then 90 mil shower liner, do you wrap it up and over the curb? then then deck mud over that with wire? fastening the wire. do you nail thru the shower pan liner.

Bud Cline

WHERE does one find 90mil shower pan liners?

Never nail through the pan liner lower than three inches above the top of the curb or on the curb (inside or top). YES, the liner goes over the curb if you aren't using a formed curb product.

onephnurse

Thanks for the straight scoop in MUD. My contractor husband was going nuts doing our bathroom shower and could not recall the "exact recipe" for shower floor mud. Your answer re Deck Mud was just right.
Thanks.....
C. Rechenmacher
Littlerock, CA