HandyAl

I am working in a house the owner's fixing up to sale. Loews installers came in to put down tile in the bathrooms. I noticed they put the cement backer board down over the existing vinyl using galvantized roofing nails.

Would you do this?

Mike Finley

It is an acceptable procedure allowing that the conditions are correct.

Highering the cheapest source in town usually means a bare bones, just meets minimal acceptable standards installation. Would we do it? No. But we wouldn't be doing the job at Lowe's rates which are at least 1/3 of ours.

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bathroom remodeling - Denver, Lakewood, Littleton, Arvada, Westminster, Centennial, Highlands Ranch, Lone Tree, Englewood Colorado.

Cole

Amen to that.

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Midtown Tulsa Remodeling

R&D Tile

I would never install any tile over Vinyl, don't care what product is placed over it first, oh and by the way, if they didn't use thinset under the backerboard, they voided the warranty and I bet this floor fails in time.

HandyAl

I don't know if they use thinset under the backer board or not. I wasn't in the room at the time.

They were going to put tile over a parquet floor in the entry, but the floor was too unlevel.

R&D Tile

Not to worry, they are paid already and don't have to guarantee it, Lowe's will take of it when it fails in the future with another tile wannabe installer.

Eric K

R&D,

When you say put thinset under the backerboard, do you mean a coat of thinset 1st, then backerboard, then thinset, then tile? Is this required when laying backerboard over plywood?

ApgarNJ

they recommend thinset under hardibacker and durock cement boards, but i have seen guys use construction adhesive instead under the backer and it hasn't caused any problems. i've put durock down directly over 3/4 subfloor and never had any issues at all. i screw the hardibacker down with those backeron screws, not nails. but you can just use a roofing gun, i just don't like that approach. large areas, it might be ok.
not exactly sure why they recommend the thinset first but they do.
if you glue and fasten with screws, where is it going to go?

reveivl

The thinset is there to make sure that there are no voids under the backerboard. It must be supported everywhere.

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"Too much is always better than not enough"--J.R. "Bob" Dobbs

R&D Tile

The thinset is used to fill any voids under it and is required, it's not there to ahere it and never use anything else, like adhesives, that can be worse than using nothing, use 1/4" trowel and unmodified thinset.

ApgarNJ

the addition/reno. i'm on now, we had quick track radiant heat thoughout, which is exposed tubing, so i decided to use the adhesive instead only on the 1/2 ply parts, not to use thinset and have it work into all the tubing and gaps around it.
unless the void is a huge gap, i can't see why they 1/2 or even 1/4 inch hardibacker can't span over a 3/8" tube. that stuff is dense and stiff. doesn't give at all unless you were to really span over a big gap or defect in the subfloor.
the ply for quicktrack doesn't have any voids like some cheap 3/4 subfloors might have.
i do see your point, but in my case, i decided not to run the thinset over the tubing. that could cause a problem down the line.

kevjob

ditra is great for that application

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Kevin
Highlands Ranch Co, bathroom remodeling
Aurora Co, Bathroom Remodeling
Kitchen Remodeling Denver

mahlere

this is the key line. These days everyone is watching these flipping house shows. get in, get out, do it cheap. do you think the current owner gives a rat's *** if the floor fails in 5 yrs? Only if he doesn't sell the house before then.

There is no warranty on resales, so no need to do it in any method other than that which will last until after the sale is complete.

doesn't make it right, just makes it.

MattCoops

you can use thinset over radiant flooring
and lay tile
why would you use an underlayment over the heating system?
I think that would act like an insulator.

I would have laid 1/4" wonderboard over Custom Blend unmodified thinset, screwed with inch and 5/8 backerboard screws. Then run your radiant flooring system. My preference is the SunTouch system that comes in orange mesh rolls and is controlled electrically through thermostat. You can connect multiple rolls to one control unit. It runs off about a nickel a day electric supply cost. Very efficient.
And you can trowel thinset and lay tile right over the heat system. Nice and toasty.

TCA states to install backerboard systems with a troweled layer of thinset and backerboard screws

you can just screw it off, or worse nail it off, but chances are it will fail over time

floortl

The installers did as they are required to do by their contract with Lowes. Lowes corp. policy is that installers may NEVER take up vinyl products of any kind for any reason. They instead install a suitable underlayment and install the new flooring over the existing vinyl.

This rule stems from the fact that Lowes cannot trust their installers to assess the risk for asbestos and be honest about the possibility that it may exist in a floor they are getting ready to rip up. It was easier for them to just say NO all the way around.

ChrWright

The margins for them are so razor thin that they can't possibly take the time to do things right (i.e.-to last).

The flip shows are comical to watch. I only wish they had follow up shows that go back to interview the new owners and all the problems they discover in their recently "flipped" dream home.

JazMan

Flortl,

That means those boobs are installing CBU and ceramic tiles over old sheet vinyl floors that might be of the cushioned variety. Kinda risky and not recommend by anyone because we know it's going to fail in a few years.

As to their installation prices, even though they are likely to do an average job at best, they charge about $11.50 per sq. ft. if it's a decent sized floor, including 1/4" CBU. Of course every other little things is extra. Then add the cost of tile and grout.

Example, re-nail or screw the old floor, (almost always needed) add about .75 cents per ft., remove shoe molding @ a per hour charge. R&R toilet, $90.00. Labor is usually a $600.00 min. for a small one day job. Prices may vary by areas.

Jaz

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Tile 4 You Inc.
KERDI Shower Expert...DITRA Installs...
www.tile4you.com

Work is good

There is a big chance that existing vinyl has some asbestos inside. During demolition phase ,asbestos is release in the air ,which affect people on the job site.

There is a plenty asbestos companies who could charge a small fortune for that job.If you follow the code and regulations,you`ll need to protect area ,seal with double protective sheets ,put air controllers inside ,making sure air is not going out, hire licensed asbestos workers ,provide protective equipment, dispose on the assigned areas….and many more to go…

And if you take them out ,with out all that mentioned ,you are in big trouble.I guess lowes could pay nice fine.Don`t mentioned law suits from workers and so long…
Probably that was reason , ` don`t take vinyl down ` ever !

Or you could pick up some guys from the street and tell them they need to remove few vinyl tiles in your grandmother kitchen ,for $ 100. I heard that ,many times..

Shaughnn

Jaz,
Don't forget that, in addition to the cushioned vinyl, they've got either luan or particle board under that somewhere. Get that wet, and your tile is "surfing on a dream".
Shaughnn

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Shaughnn
Capua Custom Tile & Stone
NTCA - Member
BAC Local #1 WA - Member