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Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional

 
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Old 04-07-2013, 06:18 PM   #41
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


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Originally Posted by skyhook View Post
Flatter walls that are also PLUMB.
If a tile man builds his own pre-slope, has his pan hot mopped, knows how to install proper lathe and float walls, I'd say he can buld a quality shower that will last 50 years.
That certainly is a benefit to a degree... but don't forget that styles change well before 50 years... and I've never heard of a 50-year warranty on a tile job... lol...

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Old 04-07-2013, 06:22 PM   #42
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


Only so many places require mud jobs. It's a great install. But fewer people will pay for that installation where it is not required. While it may last for 50 years, people move frequently and styles change before the service life of the installation ends.
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Old 04-07-2013, 06:49 PM   #43
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


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Only so many places require mud jobs. It's a great install. But fewer people will pay for that installation where it is not required. While it may last for 50 years, people move frequently and styles change before the service life of the installation ends.
We've had a series of recent remodels that included bathrooms that were 30-40 years old, and one in the last year from the 50s.
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:45 PM   #44
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


A mud job is a great install. It could also be that only the properly installed ones lasted that long. Time will tell if the "modern" methods will last as long when properly done, too.
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:55 PM   #45
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


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Flatter walls that are also PLUMB.
You forgot square.
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Old 04-07-2013, 08:02 PM   #46
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


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I've never heard of a 50-year warranty on a tile job... lol...
It's all selling points....which are funny as most manufacturers offer a 10 year warranty anyway.
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Old 04-07-2013, 08:28 PM   #47
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


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It's all selling points....which are funny as most manufacturers offer a 10 year warranty anyway.
Agreed... most tile guys offer 1-5 year warranties on their work... We offer 5-10 years depending on the tile job... We are the warranty in our case, so the manufacturer is a just another layer of protection, but anything you can do to sell it...
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Old 04-07-2013, 10:23 PM   #48
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


Then throw in mixing products from different manufacturers. I can't imagine stuff crapping out 5, 10, 15 years later. I mean seriously, what sort of science would be involved in doling out blame?

For mfgrs, I've gotten bad product which I could tell right away or in cases of grout, the next day. 7 years later, the grout in one part of one joint cracks, and now forensics? Water damage? My experience in failures isn't the materials, it's the dumbass that did it--whether improperly done and/or using the wrong product for that application.
How to warrant that? I dunno as there are a lot of DIY/HO/handymen/other tradespeople that do tile. There are even tile monkeys that can't set, can't layout, and don't do much else right either, but they've been doing it for longer than most people/mfgrs warrant their products.

I say carpet everything.
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Old 04-08-2013, 08:40 AM   #49
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


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Originally Posted by olzo55 View Post
A mud job is a great install. It could also be that only the properly installed ones lasted that long. Time will tell if the "modern" methods will last as long when properly done, too.
Honestly, the biggest factor in most of these jobs is the foundation of a home. None of these systems will work well with excessive movement, regardless of how much people say they do. I guarantee you that if one side of a shower moves an inch over time due to a bad foundation, there isn't a system in the world that will stand up to that.
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Old 04-08-2013, 08:55 AM   #50
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


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Honestly, the biggest factor in most of these jobs is the foundation of a home. None of these systems will work well with excessive movement, regardless of how much people say they do. I guarantee you that if one side of a shower moves an inch over time due to a bad foundation, there isn't a system in the world that will stand up to that.
True, maybe. There are more reasons than a foundation that could cause a failure.

Installer error is probably number one. Also, wrong materials for the conditions. Or point loads, wet framing lumber,improper fastening of framing,and wall materials, poor weatherproofing,improper insulation, plumbing leak, improper shower door installation......

It sometimes takes some detective work to figure out why something failed.
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Old 04-08-2013, 10:34 PM   #51
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


I've had the mis pleasure of ripping out a couple hundred mud jobs in the last 25 years. The majority of the walls were solid. I once ripped out a small bathroom with a "3 wall" 3'x3' shower, cast iron tub, and wainscot around the room 48"high. Took 4 swings with a sledge to put a hole in the wall...the size of the sledge!!
Took 2 guys 2 1/2 solid days.
That being said, the grout looked like crap (to be expected), and the shower..., well, it smelled! It had the typical (for this area) installation with a liner sitting flat on the subfloor. Mortar bed was saturated when we broke it up.
I have used CBU with Kerdi or Hydroban gor years and have no worries or concerns with either. I am now starting to use Wedi as I'm pretty impressed with it! My new venture is offering "well built" jobs in the least amount of time possible. Wedi helps accomplish this.
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:26 AM   #52
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


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Is there any particular reason you are not consulting with your tile sub on this? Why would advice from a bunch of strangers be the thing that proves to you which construction method is better if you haven't heard anything that has influenced you yet?
Umm. Maybe because the strangers have no dog in this particular fight of his. Maybe he has read some discussions in the tile section and discovered that some of us know of what we speak. Just saying.

To the OP

For spec, get the Tcna manual and locate proper subsections and allow your subs to bid using either method as long as they build to standard.
just make sure the your sub is fully competent in the method chosen.
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:13 AM   #53
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


This is an interesting topic for me even though it's been done to death other places. These days I'm building full mud showers only. Its not really more time if you consider the big picture. Perfectly flat, plumb, squared up walls make the tile installation go much faster. When you can make every cut before you mix up thinset, spread an set. No tinkering, no scribing cuts, no wedges to make the horizontal lines from one wall to the next line up because if they are not plumb those joints can't truly line up without some sort of manipulation.

This thread is about waterproofing though. With a full mud assembly, redgaurd, mega flex and fusion pro grout, I got a lifetime system warrantee from cbp. This pic is after the first coat of redgaurd. I spend far less time mudding walls than I would shimming planeing and furring to get even close. Plus I can take the extra 700$ I would have paid for Styrofoam and stick it in my pocket. If budget were an issue I could have gone pan liner/ poly and started setting the same day I floated the walls/ pan
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Old 05-07-2013, 05:48 AM   #54
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


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Originally Posted by Hank B. View Post
This is an interesting topic for me even though it's been done to death other places. These days I'm building full mud showers only. Its not really more time if you consider the big picture. Perfectly flat, plumb, squared up walls make the tile installation go much faster. When you can make every cut before you mix up thinset, spread an set. No tinkering, no scribing cuts, no wedges to make the horizontal lines from one wall to the next line up because if they are not plumb those joints can't truly line up without some sort of manipulation.

This thread is about waterproofing though. With a full mud assembly, redgaurd, mega flex and fusion pro grout, I got a lifetime system warrantee from cbp. This pic is after the first coat of redgaurd. I spend far less time mudding walls than I would shimming planeing and furring to get even close. Plus I can take the extra 700$ I would have paid for Styrofoam and stick it in my pocket. If budget were an issue I could have gone pan liner/ poly and started setting the same day I floated the walls/ pan
Awesome, worst part is having to wait for the redguard to dry.
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Old 05-07-2013, 06:20 AM   #55
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


I have been using more and more Kerdi board. I would like to try the Wedi board, there is a supply house very close to me, but not sure i want to spend extra time on my jobs to learn a new product...
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Old 05-07-2013, 06:24 AM   #56
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


Sod that. I will stick with WEDI board lol. I can be tiling within 2 hours with it. You should give it a go. Sure will save you back some work as well and you will be in and out much faster.
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Old 05-07-2013, 06:27 AM   #57
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


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I have been using more and more Kerdi board. I would like to try the Wedi board, there is a supply house very close to me, but not sure i want to spend extra time on my jobs to learn a new product...
There's really nothing needed to be learned. Put thunder on floor, level base. Whilst that's setting up start measuring and cutting you panels to size. Put sealant on joints. Screws boards in place. Cover screw holes and start measuring you cuts. Make your cuts and by the time you laying tile it's already to start laying tile.
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Old 05-07-2013, 06:34 AM   #58
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


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There's really nothing needed to be learned. Put thunder on floor, level base. Whilst that's setting up start measuring and cutting you panels to size. Put sealant on joints. Screws boards in place. Cover screw holes and start measuring you cuts. Make your cuts and by the time you laying tile it's already to start laying tile.
Is there any real difference between them besides colour? Aren't they both waterproof foam boards?
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Old 05-07-2013, 06:41 AM   #59
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


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Is there any real difference between them besides colour? Aren't they both waterproof foam boards?
There are a few differences. Time to install, materials they are made from, products used to seal the joints, price, ease of install. WEDI wins in all of them. Not many people in this area use either though. Tile over drywall with mastic is the most common method.

Here's one I was doing yesterday.



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Old 05-07-2013, 06:41 AM   #60
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


the face and installation instructions are very different, and Wedi is ok as an underlayment where KB is not...

I had to run out to Wayne Tile to get 20 sheets of 1/8" wedi for a thermal break on a heated floor (over slab) after learning Kerdi Board cannot be used on floor...

Also, Kerdi Board on ceiling has to be 3/4", so we just hardi and kerdi

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