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Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional

 
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Old 03-29-2013, 07:09 PM   #21
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


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Originally Posted by markpage View Post
My tile guy used a Kerdi drain on the last tile shower we did. I thought it was pretty slick.

What really constitutes a traditional shower install? I tend to embrace "new" technologies so the Kerdi-type system (sorry if it should be called something else) for walls and floors appeals to me, could be all the marketing they do...., but I am not at all opposed to learning something especially if there are real benefits to my clients.
Traditional shower install?

Depends on who you talk to:

There are guys here that still do hot mop pans all the way through guys that do Wedi/Kerdi/Schluter.

I like the PVC liners with a traditional mud floor on top. Having read a few entries of this post and some other posts, I like the idea of a "block" curb. For the walls, wonderboard or hardi.

...but this is the system that I know, without using the "magic red" or "magic green".

In my humble and honest opinion, I have not used a Kerdi/Wedi/Schluter system, yet;

So, in fairness, I will not "poo-poo" these systems. I will not recommend them either, because they are not "what I know".

I have some "opinions" about the system I use, which is more "traditional" than the K/W/S, system and have no problem discussing why...

...If you are interested.

This is the system "I would use in my house."

Do what you are most comfortable with.

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Old 03-30-2013, 08:06 AM   #22
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


Thanks Scott.

I will use what I am most comfortable with, I am just trying to get a little education, to make my decision.

What, in your opinion, is the advantage to the floor system you use over say a preformed foam pan? This is the type of discussion I am looking to have. Pros and Cons, so I can decide what I feel is best.

Thanks everyone for weighing in.

BTW. Maybe my revised question should have been: What would you use on your own home that you plan to live in forever IF time and cost weren't significant factors. HA ha.

I know what you mean about using leftovers, I save more stuff than I care to think about.
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Old 03-30-2013, 08:40 AM   #23
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


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Maybe my revised question should have been: What would you use on your own home that you plan to live in forever IF time and cost weren't significant factors.
Heck, that's an easy one--I'd fly in my bud from CA and have him build me a full mud one while I watch, drinking beer, throwing things at him.

In one building, I used red, green, and blue waterproofing, both red and green on one floor in one room. I like the black stuff and the white stuff, though not the smell so much. I need to get more flavors so I can come up with some great designs going.
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Old 03-30-2013, 09:57 AM   #24
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


Mark,

It comes down to cost vs. benefit and as a GC that is what's most important to you... the reason a lot of guys embrace kerdi/wedi/noble is it works as a system, is time-tested and you can be installing tile the next day after water test/inspections... With mud, you lose a week between the pre-slope, the membrane, the water test, the inspection, the mud base, and THEN you get to tile... the trade-off with the systems is that they cost between $400-$600 for the system... so as a contractor or GC, this directly impacts how many jobs you can perform in a year...

Both ways of doing it are fine... Last bathroom job we did was a hybrid... mud on the floor, and hydroban on the floor as liner and walls... hadn't used hydroban as a liner yet, but both the manufacturer and the inspectors said it was all good... something to consider, the systems come with a warranty from the manufacturer... mud is all you... In our case, we ARE the warranty, but if you are one of those guys who only offer a 1-year warranty on tile, the manufacturer warranty is a bonus for the customer...

Been doing bathrooms for decades, and have seen pretty much all the methods, although not all manufacturers... I am interested in trying Wedi next... but this was a transition for me, because we always did mud... I remember when green-board was used in showers and the concept of water-proofing was caulk in the corners...

That said, if we were a full-time bathroom company there would be no question which we would do... mud simply takes longer so you can't fit as many jobs in a year, which costs YOU money...

But being that we rarely do only one project at a time in a home, we make it all work schedule wise...

Best of luck... 8^)
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Old 03-30-2013, 11:12 AM   #25
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


Wedi system is faster to rough in. A lot faster. Should be considered as part of the discussion.
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Old 03-30-2013, 03:26 PM   #26
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


WEDI has a lot of advantages. Lighter material means you can carry more which means less trips back and forth. It can be scratched without causing a leak. No build up in the corners. Makes niches a breeze. It's not gypsum based.It's faster to install so you get to start the next job sooner. Those extra days add up to more jobs that year.

I haven't used the pre-made bases yet. But I have used the pre-made curbs.
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Old 03-30-2013, 05:01 PM   #27
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


from my experience I prefer mud walls over wedi or backerboard walls. I feel it provides a superior product with flatter walls and makes installing tile less complicated. It does take more time for the install but I believe in this weird business strategy of "quality over quantity". I embrace new technology when it works and wedi / backerboard work very well. I just pride myself on perfectly FLAT walls.

In past years I find it to be more stable surface to mount grab bars for the elderly. Backerboar/wedi does flex more even when the wall is fully installed with tile.

Reading from other post in this forum I have found that HOT MOP is mostly a So. Cal. thing. Hot Mop with deck mud is the only method I use for a shower pan.
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Old 04-04-2013, 07:28 PM   #28
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


What are your guys thoughts mixing brands? I like wedi board, the noble pro base and Kerdi band for sealing the base to walls and then the wedi caulk for everything else


Could this even be allowed!!!

Just used the Kerdi board and shower pan kit. Didn't really like either one. The membrane for a pan just seems too thin
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:45 PM   #29
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


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Originally Posted by srwcontracting View Post
What are your guys thoughts mixing brands? I like wedi board, the noble pro base and Kerdi band for sealing the base to walls and then the wedi caulk for everything else


Could this even be allowed!!!

Just used the Kerdi board and shower pan kit. Didn't really like either one. The membrane for a pan just seems too thin
You've probably seen me harp on using a combination of Wedi / Denshield, but it really does work, is cost effective and is easy to install. Denshield is even easier to install than sheetrock, and Wedi is by far the simplest shower system (and also on the top-tier as far as waterproofing goes) to install. Wedi is also the most expensive, at $30 for a 5'x3'x1/2" sheet, that can add up. I use Wedi for the first foot above the shower, which is the limit to how far Wedi wants you to install the lowest screw, and then I transition to Denshield, which runs about $12 for a 5'x4'x1/2" sheet for the remainder of the shower. Using the Wedi sealant, I cover all of my seams and screwheads. I use Wedi for my niches, as the foam edge make for easier waterproofing than the powdery gypsum edge of Denshield.

Here are some photos of a few projects using this method.
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Kerdi / Wedi  Vs. Traditional-2012-06-12_09-54-36_603.jpg   Kerdi / Wedi  Vs. Traditional-2012-02-12_17-41-28_273.jpg   Kerdi / Wedi  Vs. Traditional-img_20121130_133643_502.jpg  
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:12 AM   #30
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


I understand the reasons to mix materials but can't see using WEDI caulk as seam sealer. How would it stick along a powdery edge?
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:52 AM   #31
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


I used that combination recently for a tub wall with niche. I think a quick seal of the denshield edges and cuts with some AD might make a better seam. It would soak into the gyp core, IMO. Then you could apply the wedi sealant over the seam if you wanted.
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:56 AM   #32
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


FWIW, we would thinset the bottom 1/3 of shower/tub when I worked at a shop. Everything above was mastic. The lower part of the shower is the last to dry out so it made sense. However, I don't do it that way for myself. Now, I waterproof the whole thing and set with thinset.
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:27 AM   #33
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


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I understand the reasons to mix materials but can't see using WEDI caulk as seam sealer. How would it stick along a powdery edge?
Good question!

That's why I use Wedi where outside edges will be exposed, like on niches. Before, it was a pain, because I'd have to clean the powder with a damp sponge and let it dry, then I'd have to work my Wedi glue all the way around and inspect for pinholes, basically treating it like a membrane system like hydroban or aquadefense. Often, that was a two-step process because there would be some small areas that weren't sufficiently sealted. Now I just go from the surface of the denshield to the waterproof edge of the Wedi. With a seam of Denshield, simply going from surface to surface is sufficient according to their own spec, and any waterproof sealant is fine, such as silicone.
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:30 AM   #34
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


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BTW. Maybe my revised question should have been: What would you use on your own home that you plan to live in forever IF time and cost weren't significant factors. HA ha.

.

Many 'systems' would give lasting results, the issue you will have with each is installation, the quality of the installer is the most important aspect no matter which way you go ...
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:30 AM   #35
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


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Many 'systems' would give lasting results, the issue you will have with each is installation, the quality of the installer is the most important aspect no matter which way you go ...


Nothing like " installer error" to ruin a good system or heart transplant.
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:21 PM   #36
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


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Nothing like " installer error" to ruin a good system or heart transplant.
And a lousy grout job to ruin a great install.
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Old 04-06-2013, 06:25 PM   #37
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


I always wonder how flexible the Wedi sealed joints are. If there is some movement will that joint crack? I assume not. I feel more comfortable with the kerdi corners and joints.
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Old 04-07-2013, 02:50 AM   #38
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


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I always wonder how flexible the Wedi sealed joints are. If there is some movement will that joint crack? I assume not. I feel more comfortable with the kerdi corners and joints.
Very flexible. It dries to a consistency similar to tire rubber, which allows for movement.
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Old 04-07-2013, 04:23 PM   #39
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


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Old 04-07-2013, 04:34 PM   #40
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Re: Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchman Tile View Post
from my experience I prefer mud walls over wedi or backerboard walls. I feel it provides a superior product with flatter walls and makes installing tile less complicated.

Reading from other post in this forum I have found that HOT MOP is mostly a So. Cal. thing. Hot Mop with deck mud is the only method I use for a shower pan.
Flatter walls that are also PLUMB.
If a tile man builds his own pre-slope, has his pan hot mopped, knows how to install proper lathe and float walls, I'd say he can buld a quality shower that will last 50 years.

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