Jerusalem Stone in shower - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

highpeaks · 03-31-2009, 11:27 AM

I'm installing 4x8 tumbled Jerusalem stone over 1/2 hardiback in a 60x32 shower. In the past of used both heavy-duty mastic or thinset. What are recommendations do you all have? Brand suggestions as well are appreciatated. Also, what preferences do you have regarding inside corners. DO you prefer to bring side walls all the way to backer and overlap back wall tiles , or do you prefer bringing corners together and fill with grout. Lastly, does anyone pre-seal stone before installation?

thx

MattCoops · 03-31-2009, 12:00 PM

Under TCNA recommendations, "mastic" or ogranic adhesive can not be installed in a "wet area".
To me, not only is a shower a wet area, but the bathroom floor as well. Doesn't your floor get wet? Kitchen floors too, in my opinion.

I really never understood mastic or pre-mixed thinset. There is little to no bond difference, it actually costs more rather than be a bargain, and it only justifies laziness. It takes at most 5 minutes to mix a bag of thinset. Plus, it is near impossible to clean a trowel with that goo on it.

I'd love to see a picture of the tile though. What color is it? Shame it will be adhered with handyman putty.

angus242 · 03-31-2009, 01:01 PM

I'm with Matt on mastic. Wouldn't use the stuff ever. Although you cannot use it for your application.

As for the corners, you never grout in a change of plane location. That joint gets caulked.

The stone sounds expensive. You are asking very basic tiling questions. I sure hope the installation doesn't get messed up. I hate to be the one to have to pay to tear everything out and have it done correctly.

mike dean · 03-31-2009, 04:35 PM

Im doing my own bath for a change and I want to cover my existing tub which is white. Its of course enamal glass over steel. I want to cover the entire tub with mosaic tile....you know the little sqares....Im looking for an answer as to what kind of adhesive to use.......Ive had comments from epoxy only to epoxy thinset.....anybody?

and if I decide not to do that I will possibly paint the whole thing with

tub paint, epoxy ...... thanks mike dean

ps. Id have posted this ...somewhere? as a question but whoever designed this site ....forgot to give any idea on how thats done.....

mike dean · 03-31-2009, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angus242

I'm with Matt on mastic. Wouldn't use the stuff ever. Although you cannot use it for your application.

As for the corners, you never grout in a change of plane location. That joint gets caulked.

The stone sounds expensive. You are asking very basic tiling questions. I sure hope the installation doesn't get messed up. I hate to be the one to have to pay to tear everything out and have it done correctly.

I had this counter top which was laminate...formica to use a trade name..

wanted to tile...money was a problem....so I used ....yep..mastic...that gooey good for nothing stuff........and guess what ? it worked perfectly and 20 years later those tiles were still rock solid.....so theres always an exception ....to any point of view.. mike

jarvis design · 03-31-2009, 07:15 PM

Listen to what Matt and Angus are telling you. The only use for a bucket of mastic is to hold the door open while I carry in a bag of thinset!!

Are you waterproofing the substrate??

highpeaks · 03-31-2009, 08:41 PM

Jarvis, I normally use 30lb felt behind the hardibacker. I was then going to tape the seams and thinset the jerusalem stone right to the backer. Never set stone before. Only ceramic. But, I'm interested in all these new products that I've been reading about like Kerdi. Read about using kerdi over hardibacker. Not sure the reason. Maybe some can answer for me.

nwtile guy · 04-01-2009, 12:03 AM

I would use a good white thinset like ultraflex 2 or laticrete 253 and go to work. Like others have said, no mastic and caulk the corners. Tape yours seems is a good thing to do also.

jarvis design · 04-01-2009, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highpeaks

Jarvis, I normally use 30lb felt behind the hardibacker. I was then going to tape the seams and thinset the jerusalem stone right to the backer. Never set stone before. Only ceramic. But, I'm interested in all these new products that I've been reading about like Kerdi. Read about using kerdi over hardibacker. Not sure the reason. Maybe some can answer for me.

Hardi backer or concrete board are not waterproof. They will not rot when exposed to water, but water will pass through them. Kerdi is a waterproofing membrane. Once installed, you are water tight.

MattCoops · 04-01-2009, 03:36 PM

Quote:

money was a problem....so I used ....yep..mastic

If you're trying to save money on installation materials, mastic actually costs MORE than thinset. No matter where you buy it.

highpeaks · 04-01-2009, 09:39 PM

I agree that thinset is the best choice for wet areas. But my tile supplier in NY swears by TEC double-duty. They said a ton a installers use it for tile & stone in showers. Maybe the installers arent great installers. Why would a supplier recommend somethng that majority of the industry disagrees with?

MattCoops · 04-01-2009, 11:29 PM

because he makes more money off it. and the other installers are too lazy to mix a bag of thinset.

highpeaks · 04-02-2009, 12:18 PM

Bathmagician, thanks for the advice.

I've set a ton of ceramic, but this is my first stone install. It's a 32x60 acrylic shower base. I think from Americh. The bathroom floor is two 3/4 ply t& g layers over a doubled joist system. They're a new baring wall system below to reduce movement as well.The shower base was set using Structolite. Studs are covered willlllllllllllllllllllllll 15b felt. Then 1/2 hardbacker with 1 5/8 screws. All countersunk. Corners have been taped and thinset applied. Stone is a 4x8 tumbled limestone. Going to be set in a subway pattern. Approx 3/8 grout line. I was goin to pre-seal all stone before installing. My thinset of choice is from TEC. It's Superflex Latex Modifed. Was going to use 100% silicone caulk in corners. When you said rough up, what where you referring to? Also, what size notch would you recommend? What about back-buttering?

**ChrWright** · 04-02-2009, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highpeaks

Bathmagician, thanks for the advice.

I've set a ton of ceramic, but this is my first stone install. It's a 32x60 acrylic shower base. I think from Americh. The bathroom floor is two 3/4 ply t& g layers over a doubled joist system. They're a new baring wall system below to reduce movement as well.The shower base was set using Structolite. Studs are covered willlllllllllllllllllllllll 15b felt. Then 1/2 hardbacker with 1 5/8 screws. All countersunk. Corners have been taped and thinset applied. Stone is a 4x8 tumbled limestone. Going to be set in a subway pattern. Approx 3/8 grout line. I was goin to pre-seal all stone before installing. My thinset of choice is from TEC. It's Superflex Latex Modifed. Was going to use 100% silicone caulk in corners. When you said rough up, what where you referring to? Also, what size notch would you recommend? What about back-buttering?

How thick are the tiles? Is the tile filled smooth front and back or are there voids?

3/8" grout joint in a shower? That seems pretty huge for that format of tile. Any reason you're going so big? What kind of grout are you using?

Any benches or alcoves?

R&D Tile · 04-02-2009, 05:49 PM

Quote:

thats the purpose of a vapor barrier

Don't use any, all installs are now waterproof, no need for any barrier unless taking the cheap route.

highpeaks · 04-03-2009, 10:19 AM

ChrWright, wall tile is about 3/8" thick. I was think about 3/8 joint due to irregularrity of tumbled tile size. Maybe 1/4" is better? What would you suggest?