i recently so a post on facebook . this shower was done using the hot mop technique . what is the big deal with this.. i HAVE NEVER DONE ONE. that is what waterproffing systems are for.. WHATS YOUR TAKE ON THIS TOPC ?
That's about as a ridiculous statement as we'll hear defending hot tar.
As i said before, "some people don't know and don't know that they don't know".
Hot tar works fine but it does not compare to a shower where the waterproofing is on the surface. No chance for the deck mud to get wet, among other benefits. Surface sheet membrane like Kerdi is more tedious and so takes more time and costs more, but well worth it.
Obviousy, you know less than the rudiments of custom tile and shower building.
But go ahead, re-invent the wheel. More work for us craftsmen later when your system fails.
Systems are there to also keep up with new products, tile.. Right now we are discussing the right procedures to install a 1/4 inch porcelain tile with a mesh backing.. I bet you didn't know about that.. But you keep roofing ahead in showers..
Do you have xray eyes that allow you to peek into the lives of people on the internet?
I sub out my tile work to craftsmen. They keep me abreast of the latest advancements and technologies. Meanwhile, keep learning from your mistakes.
Seriously? You're making an ass of yourself for no apparent reason amongst some of the real craftsmen in this trade. Your arguments hold no weight. Explain to us how and why hot-mopping is a superior method. On your mark get set go.
i have never seen this done before, very interesting. i know if a guy wanted to carry a pot of hot tar through my jobsite he wouldnt make it on the driveway...seems like alot of work.
i have no real fault with it, other then the mess potential
a like the membrains, and euro products like kerdi, except the price.
i dont instal any of these myself, im not a tile pro, i sub it out
Well I can tell ya this much I did my first Kerdi shower a few moths ago and I felt pretty confident in my ability to do it within about 5 minutes. Hot mopping on the other hand there's no way I would even venture into that.
Hot mopping with tar makes me think about the dinosaurs! Dinosaurs make me think about unions. They had their time and place as well. I think the next time I do a client consultation I'll tell them they have two options:
Option A: install concrete board and mud bed then waterproof everything with either a sheet or liquid membrane (or use Wedi)
Or
Option B: do the "tried and true union method" of slapping on hot tar to waterproof.
i have never seen this done before, very interesting. i know if a guy wanted to carry a pot of hot tar through my jobsite he wouldnt make it on the driveway...seems like alot of work.
i have no real fault with it, other then the mess potential
a like the membrains, and euro products like kerdi, except the price.
i dont instal any of these myself, im not a tile pro, i sub it out
Well I can tell ya this much I did my first Kerdi shower a few moths ago and I felt pretty confident in my ability to do it within about 5 minutes. Hot mopping on the other hand there's no way I would even venture into that.
Hot mopping with tar makes me think about the dinosaurs! Dinosaurs make me think about unions. They had their time and place as well. I think the next time I do a client consultation I'll tell them they have two options:
Option A: install concrete board and mud bed then waterproof everything with either a sheet or liquid membrane (or use Wedi)
Or
Option B: do the "tried and true union method" of slapping on hot tar to waterproof.
For those that have never seen how a hot mop is done, go to YOU TUBE and type in hot mop showers. Then consider the method of tile installation you should use and how it's all gonna be done.
I'd rather have the waterproof membrane on the surface so nothing gets wet.
Earlier someone jokingly said something about unions. There might be something to that, not necessarily unions, but if the methods were changed, there'd be hundreds of people who'd have to find other work.
Example; I believe in Massachusetts, or maybe just Boston area, pans are still done with copper, it's in the code. The plumbers fight to keep the spec so they can get the big $$$. Only plumbers can build pans there. Here in Michigan I don't know of a plumber that builds pans correctly. Not that they don't know how, but because the building departments don't care how it's done, just that it's done. So, no pre-slope, no blocking, folds that stick out 1/2" or more etc. That's why I do completely waterproof, watertight & mold resistant showers, I like Kerdi. I can make Swiss Cheese waterproof with Kerdi.
If one did the traditional method correctly, with pre-slope and also mudded the walls, and applied a membrane on the walls too, you'd have a pretty good shower. But not many are done that way.
People install CBU on the curbs and shower benches and tile over them. That's no good. Surface membrane makes everything watertight. Seams are no problem. Seams do not leak, they're overlapped about 2", water won't wick into Kerdi seams more than 1/4" at most.
If one did the traditional method correctly, with pre-slope and also mudded the walls, and applied a membrane on the walls too, you'd have a pretty good shower. But not many are done that way.
People install CBU on the curbs and shower benches and tile over them. That's no good. Surface membrane makes everything watertight. Seams are no problem. Seams do not leak, they're overlapped about 2", water won't wick into Kerdi seams more than 1/4" at most.
It's not possible for the product to fail. It's how it's installed, as with almost anything especially regular 40 mil pans. Many if not most are not installed correctly especially at the curb/jamb area. Plumbers slice and fold it all wrong and many leak within a short time. If the tile job is done well, you may not see any evidence of failure for years though.
My point is I don't have enough faith in the manufacturers in this day and age for a newer product such as this.
Who said it's new? It's not new, been around for many years with millions of sq. ft. installed. It was developed because people were not installing showers using the old methods correctly. It cures that problem. But keep doing it the way you're comfy.
It's not possible for the product to fail. It's how it's installed, as with almost anything especially regular 40 mil pans. Many if not most are not installed correctly especially at the curb/jamb area. Plumbers slice and fold it all wrong and many leak within a short time. If the tile job is done well, you may not see any evidence of failure for years though.
Who said it's new? It's not new, been around for many years with millions of sq. ft. installed. It was developed because people were not installing showers using the old methods correctly. It cures that problem. But keep doing it the way you're comfy.
May not be proven in your mind but world wide they are proven. Just because they are fairly new here it don't mean they ain't been used in other country's. I been using Kerdi, Wedi etc etc for over 12 years. They work well.
Im still waiting for some concrete evidence why hot mop is a superior install. The hot mop vs. liner link didnt. The cti field test didnt even say that hot mop was better, only that a single membrane liner requires being more careful.
Maybe you didn't read the first 3 pages of this discussion. It's been pretty civil except when someone has asked for real facts concerning hot mop. Then facts are replaced with b.s. name calling.
Your reference about hot mop is from a hot mop installer. Not too independent, eh? And the CTI article from 1985 is full of subjective "facts". Noble's liner has a lifetime warranty. That's a fact. What independent lab has tested hot mop?
Why is hot mop more a California thing? Such a great system should be universally used don't you think? Can you or any other hot mop guy explain this mystery?
I googled hot mop vs. liner and couldnt find 1 forum or site recommending H.M. over liner except businesses that do H.M.ing. If a person wants to H.M. thats fine with me but I will stick with the tried and true nationwide method of liner and mud.
Most good construction materials in North America is designed with user in mind. Basically they try to do fool-proof as much as possible. If you buy a window or door, not necessary expensive one,it is really hard to install off plumb or off square so much not to function. Specially all products come with a piece of paper called "instructions". All a user needs to read it before. I've seen products clearly installed without following instructions and still somehow function, not as good as perfect but still.:laughing:
I personally look for innovative products that perform better than what I have now.that is why I drive vehicle with electronic ignition rather than carburetor.:laughing:
i think i will start my own bs tile assosiation....WAIT ill hotmop on top of kirdy amazing..wait im outside california so i do think its crazy to carry hot tar in a pail into a house , and slop it around. who knew osb with tar over it makes a pro shower install that is way better than anything from europe over the last decade...:no:
NOW DECK AND SHOWERS ? HOW DO THESE TOO EVEN RELATE.. YES YOU DONT WANT DECKS TO LEAK BUT THE TILE TRADE AND DECK TRADE TWO DIFFERENT PROFESSIONS. YOU CAN APRROACH A SHOER THE SAME , WHY WOULD SAY THAT SAME METHOD WOULD WORK
I'm not just a deck builder i am a GC I've been remodeling homes for 30 years and have alway hot mopped showers and not one time have I had a leak. The proof is in the pudding.
I guess the bigger question is why haven't you heard of hot mopping shower pans? It's been around for many many years.
I've been building decks the last 9 years or so only because I enjoy it.
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