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14K views 73 replies 11 participants last post by  TNTRenovate 
#1 ·
What system do you guys use for heated tile floor. I haven't done one in a long time. The tile guy won't put the wire in and neither will the electrician (he just hooks it up). I guess that leaves me.
 
#6 ·
Yep, I use the Nu Heat Wi-Fi.

You are required to megger the Schluter cable, Nu Heat does not require their cable to be meggered. I take photos with my phone of the cable tag and meter reading of all the tests.

I have a couple of pdf's in an email from Nu Heat, they wont attach here. If someone wants them PM me your email address.

Tom
 
#10 ·
I literally just installed the Nuheat cable in my kitchen. I'll be finished tiling next weekend. As far as install goes, it's not terribly difficult, but it is time consuming. I had 976 linear feet of it to install. Did a 3"/2"/3" spacing between cables, and the only difficulty I had was actually keeping the wire where I wanted it to sit, it wants to pop out if you even fart.
 
#14 ·
Gary, go to ProSource for the Ditra heat, best price around.

Also FYI, if you use any other cable other than Ditra, you will void the Ditra warranty.

EDIT: They are going to start carrying a kit in stock for me along with a bunch of other Schluter materials.
 
#34 ·
Originally Posted by tjbnwi View Post
I assume you're going to purchase a megger? I'm a licensed electrician, so no I do not call an electrician.

Well, I was an electrician for nearly 6 years, however, I never went for the masters license. My business partner had one. I currently have a sparky that would vouch for my work, especially since I've done plenty of work for, and with, him.

My statement is correct, you do not need to megger the NuHeat cable. At no point did I state it did not need to be tested.

Like I said, the impression was made, especially for those that don't understand the term megger, that you have to test Schluter and not NuHeat. Just the way I read it and the way some might as well.

NuHeat 4-tests, Schluter 9-tests, more than a few seconds. Each megger test is a minimum of 1 minute, can run up to 15 minutes. You also need a megger to preform the test.

It's an expression. It doesn't add a huge amount of time to the installation and is a great test. BTW, all I have installed up to this point was NuHeat systems.

I said nothing about being any more difficult, though you do need to cut the Ditra matt to properly install the Schluter cable cold lead connector and sensor bulbs.

Again, it's just the impression that was made. In the end it's not a big deal.

If you want to waterproof it, you need to install a Kerdi patch over the cold lead connection and sensor bulbs. You do not have to cut the matt to install the NuHeat cold lead connector or sensor bulbs. The maximum run length without a jog is 10' for the Schluter cable, no straight run length limit on the NuHeat.

Regardless of the cable the seams must have Kerdi Band installed over them. Just confirmed that with Schluter this past week. The run length isn't an issue in most bathroom installations.

That's not a guarantee you can make. NuHeat has been in the heat cable business a lot longer than Schluter, I have no concerns about their service after the install.

Again, I use a lot of Schluter products and have gone through both Innovative Workshops more than once. This is an item they chose the wrong manufacture/supplier for.

Maybe I'll see it when I install it. But so far I haven't seen the case be made to use NuHeat in Schluter. You have to cut the mat for the cold connection? Also, the sensors just sit right in, at least that's how they did it at the demo during the IBS show. The only thing that had to be cut was the cold lead.

By the way, the NuHeat Signature t-stat is far superior in looks, set up and heat range.

Tom

I wouldn't mind the NuHeat Thermostat, but still not enough for me to make the jump to another manufacturer.

I just don't see voiding the warranty on the Ditra Heat mat for the NuHeat cable. Which it will, as confirmed by Schluter this past week.


______________


I take from your first response you are NOT an electrician and have no problem violating both the local code and manufactures install requirements. That alone voids the Schluter warranty.

I made no inference, you just need to justify your statements by assuming others cannot comprehend a clear factual statement.

Stop assuming.

Big difference between Kerdi band and covering the entire shower receptor with Kerdi. You only need to Kerdi band the heat matt if you're looking for a waterproof installation, same as you would with regular Ditra. If you do not need a waterproof installation no band is required.

The Schluter bulb will not nest in the center of a stud (as required in the installation instructions) without cutting the stud. Cutting the stud for the sensors is addressed in the 6th step in the installation manual.

The warranty on the Ditra Heat matt is you use another cable, for those who want to read this from Schluter it is addressed in their FAQ section. I don't see what could fail in the matt but......

Even if you do not use the NuHeat cable, do yourself a favor and use the NuHeat t-stat.

Tom
 
#37 ·
I take from your first response you are NOT an electrician and have no problem violating both the local code and manufactures install requirements. That alone voids the Schluter warranty.

It's not a violation to work under someone's license. So no violation has been made as long as a certified electrician is willing to sign off on the work.

I made no inference, you just need to justify your statements by assuming others cannot comprehend a clear factual statement.

If you say so. I just like to make sure everything is understood. If I read something in a way others might as well. In the future you may want make sure you clarify your statements. My apologies for stepping on your toes.

Stop assuming.

It was assuming, but concluded, there is a big difference. You really got you panties in a bunch over me clarifying your statements. Got lighten up a bit.

Big difference between Kerdi band and covering the entire shower receptor with Kerdi. You only need to Kerdi band the heat matt if you're looking for a waterproof installation, same as you would with regular Ditra. If you do not need a waterproof installation no band is required.

Agree, never stated anything to the contrary. These statements always make me scratch my head. You are clarifying my statement and that is okay in your eyes, but I am not allowed to do the same to yours. Weird.

The Schluter bulb will not nest in the center of a stud (as required in the installation instructions) without cutting the stud. Cutting the stud for the sensors is addressed in the 6th step in the installation manual.

I guess they showed us another method at the show, cuz they just stuck it in the track, they didn't cut the stud.

The warranty on the Ditra Heat matt is you use another cable, for those who want to read this from Schluter it is addressed in their FAQ section. I don't see what could fail in the matt but......

That made no sense. I can only repeat what they said at the show and that was if you install someone else's cable they won't warranty the mat through their cable. Meaning they won't go through another manufacturers cable to get to their mat.

Even if you do not use the NuHeat cable, do yourself a favor and use the NuHeat t-stat.

Tom
I doubt that I will purchase two thermostats as I am purchasing the kits. So for now, it's the Schluter T-Stat. Like I said, all that I have installed to this point is NuHeat, so I am familiar with their product. I will try out the Schluter T-Stat and go from there. It's usually a set it and forget product. Once it's dialed in, it usually just runs on the program.
 
#40 ·
Tom - thanks for the FAQ link. It's kind of crazy that the manual shows how to install in wet areas but the only mention of covering the whole thing with Kerdi is in a FAQ. I would fight them on this if there was a warranty claim.

Rob - the Nuheat thermostats really are worth checking out. Ultimately, I don't care about a warranty that much if I trust the companies have a good product and record and I'm installing it right. Most failures should be due to installer error, which wouldn't be warrantied anyway.
 
#44 ·
That's what they said at the demo. I haven't set it much higher on NuHeat systems. I think the highest I went was 85, but when I went back to do some other work they had it set to 78.

Most studies have shown that anything higher than 84 degrees is uncomfortable. I think the average was 74-77 degrees, so not much need to go any higher than 82.

I will have to look it up again but I think ANSI and ASHRAE standard is 84 degrees max.
 
#46 · (Edited)
In order to meet standards it would have to greatly exceed normal operating temps. Think of ladders. A 200lb rated ladder has a safety factor of 3 before failure. So it would fail after 600lbs. I am not sure the standard, but the cable should be able to greatly exceed an 82 degree setting.
 
#47 ·
I also looked further at the warranty. Schluters warranty is way better than NuHeats.

Here's Nuheat's Warranty:

Nuheat’s warranty obligations are limited to the terms set forth below:
Nuheat Industries Limited warrants each Nuheat Mat and Nuheat Cable that it sells to be free from defects in material and workmanship effective on the date of the purchase by the original purchaser and shall remain effective for a period of twenty-five (25) years under tile, stone, laminate, and engineered wood floors from the date of purchase. The maximum liability of the company is limited to the cost of the original Nuheat Mat and/or Nuheat Cable multiplied by the percentage of the warranty period remaining.

And here's Schluter's:

RESOLUTION: Upon return of the registration card with the heating cable logs and compliance with all the aforementioned conditions, if the Products fail to meet this warranty, then the owner’s exclusive remedy and the sole obligation of Schluter®-Systems, at its election, shall be to

a) reinstall or replace the failed portion of the floor covering assembly
or
b) pay an amount not to exceed the original square foot cost of the installation of the floor covering assembly verified to be defective.
Floor covering assembly is defined to include all DITRA-HEAT materials (e.g., matting and heating cables), non-reusable flooring surfaces, and the appropriate setting and grouting materials. Further, due to conditions beyond the control of Schluter®-Systems (e.g., color and shade availability, discontinuation, normal wear and tear),
Schluter®-Systems cannot guarantee or warrant an exact match to the specific tile, stone, or other flooring materials used in the installation. In such events, substantially similar materials may be substituted. This warranty does not cover scratches, dents, corrosion or discoloration caused by excessive heat, chemical cleaning products and abrasive agents. This warranty does not cover the cost of disconnection or installation.

In the event that the registration card and or heating cable tests log is not completed and returned then the resolution for failure of the Products to meet this warranty shall be replaced with a twenty-five (25) year Limited warranty that each Schluter Heating Cable purchased shall be free from defects in material and workmanship effective on the date of the purchase by or for the original purchaser. The warranty shall remain effective for a period of twenty-five (25) years from the date said original purchase. The maximum liability of the company is limited to the cost of the original Cable multiplied by the percentage of the warranty period remaining.

So Schluter will replace the floor system for 10 years and if you don't return the registration card or testing log they will warranty the products for 25 years and prorate for what you used on that warranty.

NUheat gives you Schluter's backup warranty, but you are required to file the logs and registration.
 
#48 ·
#51 ·
They aren't running it at 90 in the middle of the summer. But I guess you didn't say 365 so I shouldn't assume that's what you meant.

However, you did assume that I didn't know that Schluter stats only go up to 82, otherwise why did you feel the need to point it out? I guess you are allowed that luxury but I am not. Got it.

I am just telling everyone what industry standards are and what research across more than 3 people has indicated what is comfortable. YMMV on comfort.

As to why your customers like 90, maybe there is no thermal break under the heated floor? Maybe the insulation sucks in the room causing the system to work overtime to accommodate a comfortable temp. 90 degrees on the tstat doesn't equal 90 degrees on the surface of the tile. Like I said, I haven't had to set them above the mid 80's and when I did they eventually turned them down.
 
#53 ·
It's 90º 365.

My bad.

Pointed out what 3 of my customers like, just their preference. Industry standard or industry recommendation (this is a serious question)?

All of those maybes are not the case on the 3 homes.

Tile surfaces are warmer to touch than what I'm "used" to. May or may not be 90º. These 3 turned them up.

Tom
 
#56 ·
Thanks. I learned a lot from this thread, thank you both! But now, the passive aggressiveness is going on too far! Let's meet up and settle it, school yard rules. Trading punches to the upper arm. First one to quit loses and has to start using the other guys heating cables!!!


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