Exterior Slate Cladding - Page 2 - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

angus242 · 09-16-2009, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R&D Tile

Ditra is NOT recommended for walls & serves no purpose trying to use it there, even Schluter states that.

I would probably use Hydroban for this installation.

Where does it state this and why would 3 of their TMs tell me differently?

R&D Tile · 09-16-2009, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Where does it state this and why would 3 of their TMs tell me differently?

I have no idea, the one I spoke to agrees with me that it serves no purpose there and is only intended for use on floors.

I guess you can place carpet on a wall too, if someone so desires.

angus242 · 09-16-2009, 02:07 PM

+ YouTube Video

angus242 · 09-16-2009, 02:12 PM

Well I have seen it used on exterior walls in Arizona. I know it's used on exterior walls in California. I had 3 technical managers from Schluter say it's ok to use on exterior concrete walls.

So for you to say it's not recommended and you wouldn't use it there is an opinion. That's all.

R&D Tile · 09-16-2009, 02:23 PM

Did some searching and yes, it has been used on walls and some reps said ok, even though that's not what it was designed to be used for.

My question is, WHY would you want to use it on a wall?, except for waterproofing and you still would need to kerdiband the seams, more thinset and more labor, makes no sense.

angus242 · 09-16-2009, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R&D Tile

My question is, WHY would you want to use it on a wall?, except for waterproofing and you still would need to kerdiband the seams, more thinset and more labor, makes no sense.

OK, the reason I even brought it up in the first place is because when I saw it done on the WC, it was on large retaining walls. That is exactly what Karl's situation is. I know it's used in Cali because of its superior uncoupling properties in a seismic region. It's an option. That's all. I did mention Noble but I can't speak about other products that I haven't used.

Karl came here asking for options and I supplied one. Never argued (or said) it was the best or only one.

Now, about this carpet on the wall....

artisanstone · 09-22-2009, 05:29 PM

Karl, I missed this until now. I have some recent experience with Latapoxy, and it seems to be designed for exactly what you are doing. Regarding the waterproofing layer that has been mentioned, everyone seems to be talking about putting it on the wrong side of the wall! Retaining walls should be waterproofed on the backfilled side, as this is where the head pressure is. It would be kinda like trying to waterproof a basement from the inside. It'll never work.

The latapoxy is meant to be applied in the "dot method" which can leave room for drainage behind the slate (rainscreen). Check it out.

When are you starting this behemoth?

CJKarl · 10-04-2009, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by artisanstone

Karl, I missed this until now. I have some recent experience with Latapoxy, and it seems to be designed for exactly what you are doing. Regarding the waterproofing layer that has been mentioned, everyone seems to be talking about putting it on the wrong side of the wall! Retaining walls should be waterproofed on the backfilled side, as this is where the head pressure is. It would be kinda like trying to waterproof a basement from the inside. It'll never work.

The latapoxy is meant to be applied in the "dot method" which can leave room for drainage behind the slate (rainscreen). Check it out.

When are you starting this behemoth?

Huh, That sure would simplify things. I meet with the landscape architect in 3 weeks. He's some big shot from Switzerland. http://www.burgi.ch/
We will get the ball rolling on weather or not an engineering firm gets called in or if he will sign off on it....One thing is for sure, I'm not signing off on it.
Start date is next spring. Don't want to be dealing with the weather for something like this.

CJKarl · 10-04-2009, 06:02 AM

Thanks Artisan, and Laticrete is right here in CT.

I'll be looking into it.

CJKarl · 10-04-2009, 06:05 AM

Here's the link.

http://www.laticrete.com/?gclid=CIWA...FQtN5QodPw6p1w

CJKarl · 10-04-2009, 06:27 PM

...and looky here. This looks interesting, off the Laticrete site.

Direct Adhered Ceramic Tile, Stone and Thin Brick Facades Technical Design Manual

The goal of this manual is to encourage new ideas, research, and building regulations for the purpose of improving the future of this construction technology and the ceramic tile, stone and brick industries.

View Manual

Download Manual (pdf)

CJKarl · 10-19-2009, 05:58 PM

Laticrete guy came to the job last week.
Recommends Hydroban or 9235 w/membrane.
Then adhere with 310- spot bonded or 255 MultiMax mortar
Architect flies in on the 2nd. I'll present him with my info and see where it goes from there.

angus242 · 10-19-2009, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJKarl

Laticrete guy came to the job last week.
Recommends Hydroban or 9235 w/membrane.
Then adhere with 310- spot bonded or 255 MultiMax mortar
Architect flies in on the 2nd. I'll present him with my info and see where it goes from there.

Good deal!

What size slate will be installed on the walls?

naptown CR · 10-19-2009, 06:17 PM

I would remain firm on any manufacturer to warrant the installation where the hydostatic pressure is behind the walls. Most posts I have seen here regarding Kerdi being OK set my bullshi# alarm off. Kerdi and Ditra are dwsigned to be a waterproof solution for water coming in the OPPOSITE direction. If there is hydrostatic pressure behind those walls there is the potential for a massive failure. I agree that if the walls are outside allowing the apor and water to drop harmlessly behind may be allright but if any walls are to be interior this is a different story.

hbrothberg · 11-04-2009, 09:34 PM

I am bit late posting on this issue, but ...

We need to "keep this simple" and NOT make it overly complex.

The use of Latapoxy 310 for spot bonding of stone is ideal for this type of application. and pretty "straightforward"

And ...

This is a retaining wall so the waterproofing need to be on the "dirt side, NOT the stone side ...!"

I do believe that this was clearly stated in a previous post:

" ... I have some recent experience with Latapoxy, and it seems to be designed for exactly what you are doing. Regarding the waterproofing layer that has been mentioned, everyone seems to be talking about putting it on the wrong side of the wall! Retaining walls should be waterproofed on the backfilled side, as this is where the head pressure is. It would be kinda like trying to waterproof a basement from the inside. It'll never work.

The latapoxy is meant to be applied in the "dot method" which can leave room for drainage behind the slate (rainscreen). Check it out."

I couldn't have said it better ...!

Henry

Henry Rothberg
Office: (203) 393-0010 ext 202
Cell: (203) 988-1814

Full Disclosure: I am a 2nd generation Laticrete guy !

CJKarl · 11-05-2009, 07:20 AM

Hello Laticrete,
I, and I'm sure others here, are very impressed with your concern for this job and follow up on this forum.
Thank you,
Karl Kaufmann
Kaufmann Masonry LLC
http://www.kaufmannmasonry.com/

Here's an email that Matt send yesterday. I thought I would share it and clear up any confusion.

Karl,

I wanted to do a quick follow-up on your residential, exterior cladding project. Let me know how it’s coming.

Also, we have a couple of internet Guru’s at Laticrete that surf the contractor forums and they came across a Contractortalk.com and a came across your chat. I just want to clarify that Latapoxy 310 can not be used over any of our waterproofing membranes. Laticrete 255 full spread will work for your project if you need waterproofing. 310 can be used by itself directly adhered to a concrete surface in an exterior application. The strength in a spot bond system relies on the point of contact between the tile, epoxy and substrate. Usually the epoxy spots cover 10% of the back of the tile or stone which means the weight is distributed to those contact areas. If you introduce a membrane, the load is now relying on our latex membrane at a limited number of points. The membrane is not strong enough to hold the weight at a point. When using a full spread thinset, the weight is distributed over the entire membrane.

Sorry for the confusion.

Call me if you have any questions.

Regards,

Mathew Day

hbrothberg · 11-05-2009, 02:28 PM

Hello, Karl ....!

Thank you ...!

When it comes to Tile & stone installation materials ... and methods & techniques ... the Laticrete Team is at your service!

(I hope that wasn't too blatantly commercial ..?)

Henry

hbrothberg · 11-05-2009, 03:40 PM

The facade of our new Laticrete HQ building here in CT features 2' x 2' granite Spot Bonded with Latapoxy 310 over CMU.

We BELIEVE in our own products & techniques ...!

We feature them on our own building here in CT in a Freeze-Thaw environment. I've attached a photo.

I have also attached an image of the CCSN Telecommunications Building in Las Vegas which features a stone facade Spot Bonded with Latapoxy 310 over concrete.

Henry

CJKarl · 11-06-2009, 09:40 PM

hbrothberg,
What type of stone is that on the telecom building? Interested in the rougher bands of stone.

Karl

hbrothberg · 11-08-2009, 04:05 PM

The stone on the exterior of the CCSN Telecommunications Building is Limestone.

A "Case Study" about this project with info & details is available but this forum won't let me post a direct website link yet.

Send me your email address and I'll send the link to you.

Henry
hbrothberg@laticrete.com