Epoxy Grout Rusting??

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-26-2009, 05:35 PM   #1
bathroom guru
 
jarvis design's Avatar
 
Trade: Bathroom Design Build Contractor
Join Date: May 2008
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,348
Rewards Points: 560

Epoxy Grout Rusting??


2 weeks ago I did a strange job - I re-tiled a stainless steel hot tub.

Whoever did it in the first place used sanded grout which was one of the problems - it kept falling off. The other problem was how the tile was set - the radius trim pieces were not really proper and they also kept coming off.

So, we stripped all the tile off, ground down the stainless, set new tile with laticrete epoxy thinset, and grouted with laticrete spectralock.

I just recieved a call this afternoon, saying that the grout was rusting.

They were also having a problem with rust on the stainless steel before on the tub as well as the handrail going into the tub (and pool).

They are using a salt system in the pool and a bromine system in the hot tub.

Obviously, (I would think anyway) grout is not going to rust - its the rust from the stainless steel that is getting into the grout.

I have to go look at it tomorrow morning - any suggestions?
Attached Thumbnails
Epoxy Grout rusting??-dscn2765.jpg  
__________________
Bathrooms Built for Life.
www.ExpressBath.ca
519-495-4062
jarvis design is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 03-26-2009, 09:17 PM   #2
Carpe Diem
 
angus242's Avatar
 
Trade: Smile 4 Tile
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 20,533
Rewards Points: 1,114

Re: Epoxy Grout Rusting??


Stainless steel rusting?
Um, I think the problem lies elsewhere. Is there something else that's not stainless that can be leaching from behind somehow? Or perhaps they didn't really get "stainless" steel. If it's contaminated with iron, the surface can become oxidized. I think there's some acid you can use to cleanse the stainless if it is contaminated. I'm not sure of the proper type though.
That's all I have. Keep us up to date with what you find.

Advertisement

__________________
Angus
angus242 is offline  
Old 03-26-2009, 09:22 PM   #3
Pro
 
Tom Struble's Avatar
 
Trade: siding
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: west milford n.j.
Posts: 17,263
Rewards Points: 4

Re: Epoxy Grout Rusting??


i think there are many different grades of stainless
Tom Struble is offline  
   
 
Old 03-26-2009, 10:22 PM   #4
Carpe Diem
 
angus242's Avatar
 
Trade: Smile 4 Tile
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 20,533
Rewards Points: 1,114

Re: Epoxy Grout Rusting??


Quote:
Originally Posted by tomstruble View Post
i think there are many different grades of stainless
True.


One thing I missed:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarvis design View Post
ground down the stainless,
I believe one of the properties to making stainless steel hard to stain or corrode is a protective layer of chromium. Since you ground it down, this layer is now gone, in effect, making it regular steel. I do know there are other methods for creating stainless, which entail the addition of other elements. Thus, different grades.

Back to grinding....that combined with the salt system may be your culprit.
__________________
Angus
angus242 is offline  
Old 03-26-2009, 10:39 PM   #5
Pro
 
cleveman's Avatar
 
Trade: custom home building
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 2,836
Rewards Points: 2,624

Re: Epoxy Grout Rusting??


Yeah, that grinding doesn't sound good.

I've confounded a lot of stainless sales people by pulling out a magnet and asking them why it sticks to their product.
cleveman is offline  
Old 03-27-2009, 01:58 PM   #6
bathroom guru
 
jarvis design's Avatar
 
Trade: Bathroom Design Build Contractor
Join Date: May 2008
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,348
Rewards Points: 560

Re: Epoxy Grout Rusting??


We took the grinder to it on the advice of the laticrete rep. I hear what you are saying about the stainless. There are a lot of different grades.

This was a pre-existing problem with the stainless rusting so I am not sure what I can do other than suggest they get rid of their salt system for the pool??
__________________
Bathrooms Built for Life.
www.ExpressBath.ca
519-495-4062
jarvis design is offline  
Old 03-27-2009, 02:01 PM   #7
bathroom guru
 
jarvis design's Avatar
 
Trade: Bathroom Design Build Contractor
Join Date: May 2008
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,348
Rewards Points: 560

Re: Epoxy Grout Rusting??


Quote:
Originally Posted by angus242 View Post
True.


One thing I missed:

I believe one of the properties to making stainless steel hard to stain or corrode is a protective layer of chromium. Since you ground it down, this layer is now gone, in effect, making it regular steel. I do know there are other methods for creating stainless, which entail the addition of other elements. Thus, different grades.

As far as I know, it's made with certain % of steel / chromium etc. I don't think (although I could be wrong) that there is a protective layer.
__________________
Bathrooms Built for Life.
www.ExpressBath.ca
519-495-4062
jarvis design is offline  
Old 03-27-2009, 02:06 PM   #8
Pro
 
gallerytungsten's Avatar
 
Trade: Design
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 260
Rewards Points: 250

Re: Epoxy Grout Rusting??


Quote:
Originally Posted by angus242 View Post
True.


One thing I missed:

I believe one of the properties to making stainless steel hard to stain or corrode is a protective layer of chromium. Since you ground it down, this layer is now gone, in effect, making it regular steel. I do know there are other methods for creating stainless, which entail the addition of other elements. Thus, different grades.

Back to grinding....that combined with the salt system may be your culprit.
Angus is on the right track here.

First, stainless can rust. Chemical exposure was likely the problem previously.

When you grind down stainless, you have to "passivate" it to create a new protective layer. (Note, this doesn't make it "regular steel" - it just leaves it more vulnerable.)

Here is some Google Assistance:
http://www.google.com/search?q=how+t...ient=firefox-a
gallerytungsten is offline  
Old 03-27-2009, 03:04 PM   #9
bathroom guru
 
jarvis design's Avatar
 
Trade: Bathroom Design Build Contractor
Join Date: May 2008
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,348
Rewards Points: 560

Re: Epoxy Grout Rusting??


Well, I went and looked at the hot tub today and there is about 4-5 spots, right at the edge of the grout and tub. Each spot is about an inch wide. I think Angus, you may be right - I think these are probably spots that got roughed up in the process of prepping the tub. I have told them the next time they clean it I will come and polish those spots.

Thanks for the help gentlemen!!
__________________
Bathrooms Built for Life.
www.ExpressBath.ca
519-495-4062
jarvis design is offline  
Old 04-02-2009, 02:56 PM   #10
Builder/Remodeler
 
ChrWright's Avatar
 
Trade: Builder/Remodeler
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 3,688
Rewards Points: 2,016
Send a message via Skype™ to ChrWright

Re: Epoxy Grout Rusting??


Deleted...

Referred to a post from a user who was removed.
__________________
Christopher Wright, CR: President @ WrightWorks, LLC
www.WrightWorks.net - Facebook - Twitter - Carmel Remodeling
Indianapolis Kitchen Remodeling Contractor - You Can Get There From Here

Last edited by ChrWright; 04-02-2009 at 11:36 PM.
ChrWright is offline  
Old 04-02-2009, 08:37 PM   #11
Builder/Remodeler
 
ChrWright's Avatar
 
Trade: Builder/Remodeler
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 3,688
Rewards Points: 2,016
Send a message via Skype™ to ChrWright

Re: Epoxy Grout Rusting??


Quote:
Originally Posted by jarvis design View Post
2 weeks ago I did a strange job - I re-tiled a stainless steel hot tub.

Whoever did it in the first place used sanded grout which was one of the problems - it kept falling off. The other problem was how the tile was set - the radius trim pieces were not really proper and they also kept coming off.

So, we stripped all the tile off, ground down the stainless, set new tile with laticrete epoxy thinset, and grouted with laticrete spectralock.

I just recieved a call this afternoon, saying that the grout was rusting.

They were also having a problem with rust on the stainless steel before on the tub as well as the handrail going into the tub (and pool).

They are using a salt system in the pool and a bromine system in the hot tub.

Obviously, (I would think anyway) grout is not going to rust - its the rust from the stainless steel that is getting into the grout.

I have to go look at it tomorrow morning - any suggestions?

Beautiful work Jarvis.

You might look here:

http://www.ssina.com/faq/index.html#3

I'm curious what you used to grind the old tile & mortar off. Is it possible some metal dust from the tools & grinding was left and that's what is rusting?
__________________
Christopher Wright, CR: President @ WrightWorks, LLC
www.WrightWorks.net - Facebook - Twitter - Carmel Remodeling
Indianapolis Kitchen Remodeling Contractor - You Can Get There From Here
ChrWright is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to ChrWright For This Useful Post:
jarvis design (04-04-2009)
Old 04-02-2009, 10:57 PM   #12
Pro
 
Nathan's Avatar
 
Trade: Founder of Contractor Talk
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 8,606
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Epoxy Grout Rusting??


Trying to clean up this thread. Let's keep the insults to yourselves. There is no place for that here. Thanks.
__________________
Nathan
Ran off to make great mobile software for contractors. Leveler.com
Nathan is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Nathan For This Useful Post:
angus242 (04-02-2009)
Old 04-02-2009, 11:32 PM   #13
Pro
 
Ed the Roofer's Avatar
 
Trade: Roofing Contractor
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NW Suburbs of Chicago
Posts: 7,157
Rewards Points: 2,054

Re: Epoxy Grout Rusting??


Screw that jerk.

I was going to let you handle him for your own satisfaction, but 20 posts made and already a slough of Reports on him.

Grow Up and take your hand off your magic wand.

Ed
Ed the Roofer is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ed the Roofer For This Useful Post:
angus242 (04-02-2009), ChrWright (04-03-2009)
Old 04-03-2009, 12:09 PM   #14
bathroom guru
 
jarvis design's Avatar
 
Trade: Bathroom Design Build Contractor
Join Date: May 2008
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,348
Rewards Points: 560

Re: Epoxy Grout Rusting??


I am so disappointed I missed all the fireworks!!
__________________
Bathrooms Built for Life.
www.ExpressBath.ca
519-495-4062
jarvis design is offline  
Old 04-03-2009, 12:41 PM   #15
Builder/Remodeler
 
ChrWright's Avatar
 
Trade: Builder/Remodeler
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 3,688
Rewards Points: 2,016
Send a message via Skype™ to ChrWright

Re: Epoxy Grout Rusting??


Yes, you missed it. I'm sure you would have had more than a few things to say had you been around.

Seems a common thread with guys who come on new to the forums and expect instant credibility. The minute you ask them to give their background or defend their point of view...they freak out.

I wish they would have kept his posts though... he was a funny guy.
__________________
Christopher Wright, CR: President @ WrightWorks, LLC
www.WrightWorks.net - Facebook - Twitter - Carmel Remodeling
Indianapolis Kitchen Remodeling Contractor - You Can Get There From Here
ChrWright is offline  
Old 04-03-2009, 01:01 PM   #16
Pro
 
Ed the Roofer's Avatar
 
Trade: Roofing Contractor
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NW Suburbs of Chicago
Posts: 7,157
Rewards Points: 2,054

Re: Epoxy Grout Rusting??


One thing I learned growing up, was to have respect for other peoples property.

You guys on your own could have and would have handled him well enough on your own, but when you first come into someone else's house, (Nathans Forum), it was just barking up the wrong tree to start calling him some names.

My patience is thin for someone who learned no respect for others at all.

Ed
Ed the Roofer is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Ed the Roofer For This Useful Post:
Tom Struble (07-22-2009)
Old 04-03-2009, 01:28 PM   #17
Pro
 
Anti-wingnut's Avatar
 
Trade: Commercial Superintendent
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,839
Rewards Points: 3,180

Re: Epoxy Grout Rusting??


Back on topic:
1) Stainless steel is an alloy. As such, it does not have any layer such as chromium on its outermost portion. All elements are distributed evenly

2) It is very common for grinding to introduce other elements onto a stainless surface. In steel fabrication, the grinding disks used on stainless are not used for any other metal, for fear of cross contamination. Did you use specific wheels, or wheels that had been used on ferrous metals previously?
Anti-wingnut is offline  
Old 04-03-2009, 03:05 PM   #18
Carpe Diem
 
angus242's Avatar
 
Trade: Smile 4 Tile
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 20,533
Rewards Points: 1,114

Re: Epoxy Grout Rusting??


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti-wingnut View Post
Back on topic:
1) Stainless steel is an alloy. As such, it does not have any layer such as chromium on its outermost portion. All elements are distributed evenly
That's good to know. I would have assumed the same myself but I read the same website that Chris referred to and maybe I misunderstood FAQ #1
http://www.ssina.com/faq/index.html#1

Thanks for the clarification!
__________________
Angus
angus242 is offline  
Old 04-03-2009, 06:41 PM   #19
Pro
 
painter213's Avatar
 
Trade: Coatings consultant and Inspector
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Southeast
Posts: 1,254
Rewards Points: 1,332
Send a message via AIM to painter213

Re: Epoxy Grout Rusting??


Anti-Wingnut is on to a good question. What kind of wheel did you use to grind the stainless? Some people have made the mistake to use steel wool or a steel wire brush on stainless and this is where there problems with the stainless began. Let us know what you used. Good Luck.
__________________
NACE Certified Coatings Inspector Level III #7953
SSPC Protective Coatings Specialist #2014-529-139
babbott@abbottcoatinginspections.com
205-717-0292
painter213 is offline  
Old 04-04-2009, 06:30 PM   #20
bathroom guru
 
jarvis design's Avatar
 
Trade: Bathroom Design Build Contractor
Join Date: May 2008
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,348
Rewards Points: 560

Re: Epoxy Grout Rusting??


First Off, Thanks Chris for the link - very helpfull and informative.

As for what we ground with, we used your run of the mill sanding disk (80 grit)

One thing I might have not mentioned, the original installation used epoxy thinset and I ended up using my plumbers torch to heat the tiles to release the "glue". We then ground off the residue.

I am wondering what type of stainless the fabricators used?? I am going to see if I can find out.

Thanks again

Mike Jarvis

Advertisement

__________________
Bathrooms Built for Life.
www.ExpressBath.ca
519-495-4062
jarvis design is offline  


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
epoxy grout removal reveivl Flooring 25 10-24-2012 07:30 PM
Portland or Epoxy grout? Ponsse Tiling 10 04-14-2008 08:53 AM
TEC AccuColor Epoxy Special Effects Grout cleveman Tiling 1 04-13-2008 08:24 PM
Epoxy grout.. trav007 Tiling 2 02-21-2008 06:28 PM
epoxy grout honeysweet15452 Kitchens & Baths 2 08-20-2007 03:58 PM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?