LED systems - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Ironwood Land · 08-15-2008, 05:07 PM

I am putting in a new system for a customer and want everything to be LED, do I need a different transformer than the traditional 300, 600, 900, 1200 watt? I know it probably depends on how many lights I will be installing but I saw something on Kichler's website about a remote driver. Also, is it best to use the traditional 12-14 GA wire when installing LED lights or is that wire too big for LED's.

This will be my first LED install so if anyone has any suggestions I would like to hear them.

MALCO.New.York · 08-15-2008, 05:54 PM

I think, I may be wrong, that it all depends on the LOAD????? And the VOLTAGE??????

**Teetorbilt** · 08-15-2008, 07:03 PM

LED's are pretty new and they're still working out many issues.

Available are lights that step down from household current using a transformer, ones that include the transformer as part of the light and some that require a 12-36 VDC transformer.

I have yet to see a single company/system that would provide what I would want for most any use.

Pricing is another current issue. I recently priced waterproof, 6 unit clusters that were between $800-1,200 ea. Even Al Gore would have second thoughts about those prices!

NightScenes · 08-16-2008, 07:59 AM

Most of the LED landscape lighting that you see out there will operate directly from an ordinary 12v transformer. You would have to use a whole lot of lights to need more than a 300 watt unit. The Kichler mini LEDs which are the ones that are for underwater use or small niche lighting have an external driver that needs to be installed. This is a 40 watt unit which will operate about 10 of those mini lights and it hooks up to the transformer. I think Kichler has the best LED directional fixtures out there because the LEDs are actually built into the fixtures. They have designed the fixture to dissipate the heat from the LEDs which will make sure that they last a very long time.

As for wire, you can use smaller wire if you like (I sure would) because your load will be so much less. You will use the same NEC requirements as to the amount of load you can place on a certain size wire. Your voltage drop will be less of an issue and the LEDs will operate well at voltages ranging from 9-15 volts.

Hope this helps and good luck,

Ironwood Land · 08-18-2008, 08:51 AM

Thank you all for the help.
While I was looking at the kichler led page it seems that they have the remote driver's built into the fixtures themselves. Are you suggesting using the 40W driver as an added precaution?

Also would you say that the output on a 4.5W LED is similiar to a 10W-20W traditional 12V system? Would 8.5W LED be similiar to 35W and would 12.4W be similiar to a 50W? Thanks again for your help

NightScenes · 08-18-2008, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironwood Land

Thank you all for the help.
While I was looking at the kichler led page it seems that they have the remote driver's built into the fixtures themselves. Are you suggesting using the 40W driver as an added precaution? No, the underwater mini LED lights need the external driver because their's is not built in. All of the rest of the Kichler LED fixtures have built in drivers.

Also would you say that the output on a 4.5W LED is similiar to a 10W-20W traditional 12V system? 4.5 = 20 watt, 8.5 = 35 watt and 12.4 = 50 watt.Would 8.5W LED be similiar to 35W and would 12.4W be similiar to a 50W? Thanks again for your help

Any time,

Chris J · 08-21-2008, 08:59 PM

Actually, Kichler is now claiming 8-15 volts for their operating range.

Ironwood Land · 08-29-2008, 10:42 AM

Does anyone know where I can get a wire gauge chart for LED lighting. I have 7 lights (62.7 W) and was thinking that 12 GA is pretty big for only 63 W. The only chart that I have is for traditional 12V lighting. Any help is appreciated. Thanks

NightScenes · 08-29-2008, 05:24 PM

That's less than 6 amps so you could go as low as #18 wire if you want to but I don't think I would go less than 14, just in case there are additions to the run.

James Solecki · 09-02-2008, 01:31 PM

There are a number of decent LED lamps on the market that can be dropped into existing, tried and trusted Low Voltage fixtures. Specifically high power / high efficiency LED MR16 Lamps. I prefer this route as I would rather not be pigeon holed into installing complete LED based fixtures (sealed units) that are not field servicable and are generally designed with function over form. Things are moving ahead very rapidly in the world of LED Lamps and the issues of heat dissipation, intensity and colour are no longer a problem in most applications.

I highly recommend the Luxxo line of MR16 LED lamps. They very closely mimmick the light output of a 20W Halogen MR16 lamp and are the best units I have ever come across. So good that I have opened a distribution company that offers them to the trades and public. Visit www.ledlightsdirect.com for more information.

There are other similar lamps on the market, but you will find that they each have their drawbacks when compared to the Luxxo. The best thing is, in our application of LV outdoor lighting, you don't have to commit to a single company's line of proprietary fixtures. (many of which are downright unappealing in design and quality) You can keep using the fixtures you know, love and trust and if an issue does develop you simply replace the lamp, not the entire fixture.

There is a lot more to know about LED lamps, fixtures and systems... feel free to ask.

Regards.

Ironwood Land · 09-22-2008, 04:09 PM

I placed the order and received the lights the other day and was pleasantly surprised when the lights came in. They are much smaller than I thought they were going to be. I will be installing them in trees to serve as down lights to illuminate a deck. These lights have a very good seal on them and I am hoping that I won't have to climb the ladder again after they are installed. Hiding the fixtures is something I pride my company in and these lights will make it much easier to do so.

I used the kichler 15731 series lights if anyone is interested.

Greg Di · 09-23-2008, 11:36 AM

Thread drift ahead:

What are you guys using for connectors with LEDs?

I've been using regular wirenuts and taping under my deck jobs, but I wonder if there's a better way.

The reason I'm using wire nuts is that the LED lights I'm using have three unique leads coming from the fixture (1 per LED), so it's not a 2 wire to 2 wire connection. It's 6 wires to 2 wires.

Bob Mariani · 12-30-2008, 10:16 PM

Use wirenuts approved for underground work. They contain silcone and have a sealed end. Regular wire nuts will allow the wire to corrode over time (not long) and the tape will also quickly deteriorate.

James Solecki · 01-02-2009, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Di

Thread drift ahead:

What are you guys using for connectors with LEDs?

I've been using regular wirenuts and taping under my deck jobs, but I wonder if there's a better way.

The reason I'm using wire nuts is that the LED lights I'm using have three unique leads coming from the fixture (1 per LED), so it's not a 2 wire to 2 wire connection. It's 6 wires to 2 wires.

There are many excellent connection products on the market that would work for you. The best being the Nightscaping ACE connector, 1/4 ACE, or BIG ACE. Dryconn wirenuts are ok, but you must ensure they are installed properly. Belden Solder Seal connectors are a great, small, inline connection too.

Sounds to me like you should be doing more work at hiding your connections. I hate seeing wire or connections on structures, decks, or anywhere for that matter. Coring, dado channels, custom trims, etc help to make your installations pro grade.

Hope this helps.