Self employed guy needs some advice from the Pros to keep things straight... - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Luny · 04-24-2007, 08:00 PM

Hi, I'm new to contractor talk and I'm here because I need some advice from the pros.

I know this forum is for contractors only

but I hope you can hear me out before the admin probably deletes my post

This seems like the best place to ask my questions.

I've been self employed since I started mowing yards when I was 13 using my dad's riding snapper mower. I have never advertised, I've only obtained new customers by word of mouth or my business card.(I've never used contracts) I've mowed cemetaries, apartment complexes, and mostly residential lawns. Since I started I've bought 2 new riding lawnmowers, an old truck, 3 used tractors/attachments, and a few other things from time to time. Nearly all of my smaller equipment including but not limited to weedeaters, blowers, edgers,chainsaws, trimmers, etc were pretty much given to me, or i found them being thrown away.(its amazing what you can find on the side of the road from time to time). So I've stockpiled a good bit of equipment. Lawn maintenance has pretty much carried me through college(with money to spare woot). Now I'm 21, I'm a year shy of getting my BS (information technology major) and I've started a computer business with my friend as an LLC as of last year.

Here is the deal, I have all of this equipment(I bought my newest lawnmower last year for $6500) and I kind of want to create a business (LLC) and maybe try to hire some people in the next couple of years so I can still profit from all of my equipment and experience. I do not owe on anything I have, so if my business doesn't work out I can continue with computer biz and not be in a hole. I want to start a legit business and that means I want to do everything by the books/follow the rules and regs/keep everything clean, etc. In the past I've caught myself doing odd jobs here and there that I'm not really qualified to do and I know i shouldn't have done which includes but is not limited to things like running wires in houses, changing breakers, replacing plumbing under houses, digging up septic tanks,a ton of other plumbing work, some roofing repairs, cutting down large trees, a lot of carpentry work(I hate carpentry work) ,fences, built decks, storage houses, put in some floors, painting houses, and most certainly a ton of other stuff that I'm probably not supposed to do, but probably didn't know better at the time and needed the cash. The problem is I'm not really sure what I'm qualified to do where I live when it comes to lawn care. I'm not really sure where lawn maintenance ends and landscaping begins.

I've tried to search the forums here and didn't find a lot that could help me clarify things. I live in Mississippi so I've been reading over the “Mississippi Landscape Architect Registration Act” at www"dot"archbd"dot"state"dot"ms"dot"us/pdf/lalaw.pdf

The line between lawn maintenance and landscaping is still blurry... I'm also reading a book on starting a lawn care business. Apparently the book isn't all that great because it doesn't mention landscaping certifications/contracting at all. I know someone will probably tell me to I'm supposed to ask my lawyer or cpa, and eventually I probably will, but since I haven't started the ball rolling on setting up this business yet, I'm making a list of things I need to ask so I don't walk in and waste a lot of their time.(gets expensive)

So here I am still trying to make sense of what services I can and can't offer as a lawn care business without being a licensed landscaping contractor or have any other certifications/licenses. I've read over the qualifications that I would need to become a licensed contractor, and I'm pretty sure I won't be able to go back and take extra courses in college for it.(Is there a faster way, online college maybe?) I know theres a lot more to know about landscaping, etc , but at the same time I'm not a complete dumba** on the subject. I know most people here would tell me to stick to computers since thats what I'm going to college for and I've already started a business in it. I'll work in computers later, but for now I still like working outside, keeping my tan, keeping myself active, and sleeping good at night

, not to mention I'm pretty confident about my lawn skills.

So I'm asking for some advice/discussion from you, the professional contractors before my post gets deleted or moved to the DIY where I'll probably be doomed to not ever finding solid advice on this topic. If anything this thread could help other people like me that happen to wander this way.

P.S : Plz Go easy on me

MinConst · 04-24-2007, 08:20 PM

Luny,
You sound about as much of a contractor as any of us when we started. You work, make money, and try to do the right thing.
I don't know the laws where you are and I'm not a landscaper but here in Florida they are abundant. Everyone mows lawns. As far as I know you only need a occupational license to mow and trim. But I might be wrong, I never looked into it.
I'm fairly certain someone here is from Mississippi and will chime in.
Good luck to you and think positive.

**ProWallGuy** · 04-24-2007, 08:59 PM

Go to this site, click on Miss. on the map. If you can't find it there, they list a phone # for questions. That will get you on the right track.

Luny · 04-24-2007, 10:43 PM

Wow thanks for the help, I whent to the site and whent to Mississippi. So is it really as easy as taking an exam to be legal? That would be great because I was under the impression that I had to have so many hours experience or years of college.

PressurePros · 04-25-2007, 05:42 AM

Now that you know about licensing (which means absolutely squat about whether or not you will make a nickel) go here and develop your plan of attack.

http://www.sba.gov/smallbusinessplanner/index.html

North Star · 04-25-2007, 08:22 PM

Partner, drop me an e-mail goodearth10@aol.com and I'll help you all I can. You are starting out the right way. Stay on that path

Luny · 04-26-2007, 01:21 PM

I'm still a little bit confused tho, maybe I didn't ask exactly the right question.

I've always done all of the work by myself. I want to expand and hire someone full time to help out. The problem then becomes how to keep enough work during the fall/winter months to keep them busy. I'm planning on offering the obvious types of jobs like leaf removal and blowing off the roofs of houses, etc. I want to offer as many services as I'm able to. This is where I'm a little worried about what I can do(legally).

For example, I have a some garden tractors, that aren't extremely big, but from time to time I use the box blade to level off someone's yard or driveways, or spread a load of dirt they have hauled in. I also use my tractors to move trees that have fallen, and pull up bushes/trees that the customer wants removed. People love it because the tractors dont leave a big footprint or tracks all over their grass and they aren't expensive to operate. My question is... Can I offer services such as this without having any extra licenses/certifications. I don't plan on trying to landscape entire yards/etc , I'd leave that up to the guys that do just landscaping/have the big equipment. I'm just trying to offer enough services to keep busy in the off season, and I'll probably have to focus primarily on residential jobs to do it.

I know the laws in my state are different from others, but any input can give me an idea of what services would be legit for someone running a lawn maintenance business. I guess I became confused about all of this when I read over the "Mississippi Landscape Architect Act" as I linked in my first post.

Thanks,
David

woodmagman · 04-26-2007, 06:49 PM

Running a start up buisness is a full time job. Even something like what you propose. I would spend some time going over the list of young piors that you have meet in the last years that have become teachers the season is the reverse of yours and you may be able to find a business partner who is able to grow the business at the peak times....

marverick · 04-26-2007, 07:21 PM

I think you are expecting there to be more regulation than there really is. You are right, you pretty much have to go to school to become a landscape architect, but you do not need a liscese to be one. You CAN apply to become a liscensed landscape architect but it is not required. It is very benefitial in getting business, as some people will only want to hire a certified landscape architect. My sister is a landscape architect, (BA from the University of Illinois) and is not "certified" and does work allllll the time. She would probably not be able to get a job for a company doing landscape design but since she works for herself it doesnt really matter. In any case I am pretty sure you arent going to be doing too much landscape design, however this is just an example.

That being said there ARE certain requirements you will need. Most communities REQUIRE contractors to have certain levels of insurance before they can work in the area. For example, I do a lot of landscape design and installation and most towns around here require between $500,000 and $1,000,000 of liability coverage (this is actually very affordable). If you are going to have employees you are also going to probably need workmans comp insurance, unemployment insurance, etc etc. sba should cover all those questions. You will have to be certified by J.U.L.I.E (at least that is what it is called in Illinois), this is really easy.

There are some jobs that you need to be certified to do around here, for example:

Tree removal/pruning/trimming gets very tricky because there are many safety certification, climbing certifications, etc etc. Also alot more insurance liability protection.

You may need safety certifications in your area if you plan to do jobs in dangerous areas, such as on a roof.

You will probably need a pesticide applicators license if you plan on using chemicals, again very very easy test.

As for the work you are doing on plumbing, construction, electrical- these things REQUIRE liscensing that it probably isnt worth your time to try and get. If the jobs you are doing arent that big of a deal, I wouldnt worry about it too much. Fixing the occasionaly pipe, building a fence, and other handy work does not usually require a liscense but you should call the county.

"For example, I have a some garden tractors, that aren't extremely big, but from time to time I use the box blade to level off someone's yard or driveways, or spread a load of dirt they have hauled in. I also use my tractors to move trees that have fallen, and pull up bushes/trees that the customer wants removed."

None of that stuff should require any liscensing

Here are some things that you said that you do and my GUESS as to whether they require any liscesing- it is a pretty educated guess but i'm not an expert in your neck of the woods and Im not always right- people should feel free to correct me if I am wrong:

running wires in houses - wouldnt mess with this unless you really trust the person you are doing it for not to screw you over. I dont think this TECHNICALLY requires a license but it is subject to code requirements and building inspection.
changing breakers - same as above
replacing plumbing under houses - replacing plumbing probably doesnt require a liscnese but same as above statement
digging up septic tanks,a ton of other plumbing work - the digging doesnt but the other stuff may
some roofing repairs - probably only safety certifications
cutting down large trees - a ton of liability insurance, some safety certification, no official certification though
a lot of carpentry work(I hate carpentry work) - depends on the type
fences - you probably ok here
built decks - definitely requires a license
storage houses - subject to code, inspection, and permits but probably doesnt require a liscense
put in some floors - should be ok here
painting houses - definitely ok here

Some of these handyman jobs may require a HANDYMAN liscense

In addition to insurance requirements, most towns require you to register with the city as a contractor and pay a couple hundred dollars in fees. This is no big deal, and not all areas do this.

Most landscaping work doesnt require any sort of certification, there are optional cerifications you can get if you want to get more business but in my experience people dont really care. When you start getting into decks, some masonary work, and landscape lighting you may be subject to some liscensing.

As for not taking on any big jobs- i think this is a mistake. Landscaping is a fantastic and profitable business to be in my advice is to jump in and start bidding jobs, if you think a job is too big for you try and find a way to make it work- the experience will be invaluable. remember- go big or go home.

Luny · 04-26-2007, 08:02 PM

Thanks Maverick, your reply pretty much hit the nail on the head. It is a relief to know that it won't be as hard as I thought it was as I have already planned on the workers comp/liability ins/unemployment. I've actually had my eye on a couple of people I think would be reliable workers, and have been talking to them about jumping on board for awhile now.

I plan on pushing the lawn mowing/cleanup as hard as I can. Like I said the only equipment I've ever purchased new is my two riding lawnmowers, mostly because thats what I plan to work the most. I want to try to keep the lawnmowers rolling as much as possible during the mowing season. As far as getting further into landscaping... I probably will. From time to time I've had customers ask me to do pretty big projects, like a couple of times I've had to pull up every bush and tree in a yard and start all over again, which took days. I guess that could be considered some landscaping. If I'm able to make much money at all I'm dropping the electrical/carpentry work stuff altogether, maybe theres some low voltage options for landscape lighting if I ever need to install lighting.

Thanks again,
David

mdvaden · 05-07-2007, 03:24 PM

I'm glad you mentioned where you were at. It's good to put it in profile though. Maybe I should check mine.

I was on Oregon's license board for two terms, so I'm glad to hear you are checking out what you need to do.

Your post was so long, that I buzzed all the way to the actual question in the last paragraphs - then another reply.

You may not need work in winter, for yourself, but maybe for workers.

But some folks schedule small pruning for winter, and offer holiday light hanging and removal. And gutter services.

The best that you can do, is charge enough in summer to cover the winter slow-down. Of course, the money itself may not be what you need to keep employees.

dirt diggler · 05-08-2007, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdvaden

But some folks schedule small pruning for winter, and offer holiday light hanging and removal. And gutter services.

The best that you can do, is charge enough in summer to cover the winter slow-down. Of course, the money itself may not be what you need to keep employees.

exactly

this is why you can't work for peanuts in the summers

you really need to push to make that annual income between March/Nov

unless you want to hang christmas ornaments for peanuts as well ...

maurajbo · 05-22-2007, 08:08 PM

One more thing. Don't degrade yourself. You sound like a very competent, perfectly legitimate landscaper and there's no reason anyone would delete your post or respond in a cruel way. In business, and especially with customers, it's very important to sound confident all the time.

Flikka · 05-27-2007, 10:03 AM

Luny,

I didn't read all the replies to your post so please forgive me if I'm repeating someone elses thoughts.

Instead of running something all year have you thought of hiring a university student or two every year to keep the equipment running and giving them the same break you created for yourself? You could have them make the bulk of the money and you keep enough to cover the cost of the equipment and overhead and line your pockets a wee bit. Paying it forward and all that good stuff.

Cheers
Mary

fireguy · 05-27-2007, 11:38 AM

Call the bureau, commission, agency in Mississippi that may or may not be responsible for licensing. Get a name, date, time of day and phone number of whoever you talk to, and their response to your questions. Thank them for there time and help. Wait 5 minutes and call the number again. Get a date, time of day, and phone number and the response to your questions. Do that at least 3 times, if you get the same resonse each time, that may be the right answer. If any of the answeres are different, ask for a supervisor. My experience in Oregon is not all of the employees of an agency know what they are talking about. Even worse is the different agencies do not have any idea what other agencies require. Agencies make rules and do not communicate with each other.

fireguy, a licensed general contractor in Oregon, and Washington.