Driveway Drainage

C.C.R.

Hi guys,
I have a long time, very loyal, customer who has a problem with rain water draining into his garage and then into his finished basement (it's been like that for years.) due to the grading of the driveway (backwards). The town he lives in was built on, basicly, a swamp so it has a very high water table (about 2-3 feet in some sections of town).
So he asked me if I could fix it so he could get his basement back (obviously, after the water problem is fixed there will be a basement remodel to do) so I'm thinking, to fix it, and please tell me if I'm wrong or if there's a better way, I will:
~Cut a trench at bottom of driveway and install a horizontal drain tray the width of the driveway
~Dig a trench from the "Tray" out to the backyard/swamp
This is where I have questions. I know there are basicaly two schools of thought here.
1. the drain should drain to daylight.
which I would assume use solid corragated pipe.
2.Use perforated corragated pipe and stone
I think draining into daylight would be best with the high water table.
If I'm using the solid pipe (because the whole idea is to get it away from the house) do I need to line the trench with stone?
Any and all input would be appreciated.

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Complete Custom Remodeling
"When Quality is Top Priority"
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concretemasonry

Get the trench water into the pipe as soon as possible. Drain to daylight using soild (non-perforated) pipe as far away as possible. Keep it as level and deep as possbile because of the freezing problems. No need for rock.

Your big problem will be keeping the basement dry, which will probably require drain tile and a sump pump draining to the same area, but not using the same pipe.

__________________
Dick

Engineer, designer and consultant recently active domestically and internationally on construction and design in about 40 countries.

MacSapiens

CCR, I think Dick's advice is accurate. When laying non-perforated drain pipe, stone is only used as a base to prevent damage from heaving or settling. So if the drain pipe is below the frost line then it isn't necessary. I assume in northern Mass that you have a fairly long period during winter when the ground is frozen. In Minnesota, a drainage system such as you propose may well receive a lot of runoff during a sunny late winter day only to freeze up by late after noon. The next day's runoff then drains into a frozen system. We realized after installing a number of "well designed systems" that several factors were crucial to success. First, during cold weather the drain pan must be sized to empty very rapidly. Which means the pan must carry an adequate pitch to remove congealing water, before it turns to slush and creates a dam. Second, the drain outlet diameter must be sized large enough to carry off the greatest expected flow of water. And third, if the drain line is not below frost, it too must be sized large enough to rapidly dump all the water it is expected to carry. This means that not only do you need sufficient pipe diameter, but also you need sufficient pitch to generate flow.

Our experience with driveway drains in the mountains of Colorado was somewhat different, but they still utilize those three main design features. There, because of the usually steep natural grade of many mountain homes and the depth of snow cover, we carry the water away from the driveway in a 6" or 8" pipe, buried only inches below grade. We bring the pipe end to the surface where the grade is steep enough to have gravity flow the water away, freely and fast. In Minnesota, in climate circumstances similar to yours and with little natural grade to work with, the cost of installing a drain line ending in a French Drain type of underground basin is usually prohibitive. So we locate the house sewer line, drain the driveway as discussed, and tap into that line. City inspectors often balk at this because it's an unfamiliar method for them. But because the system is laid in the apron directly in front of the garage and because their predecessor "approved" a malfunctioning home to be built in the first place, they have little choice.
Good Luck with your project

bill r

I'm way out of my own field, but I want to add one note to the above post. Down here on the coastal plain, sudden downpours are hard to manage. It's a serious NO-NO to drain rainwater into the sewer system because it floods their plants. I do love the psychology at the end of the post, however.

C.C.R.

Thanks for the help guys. I think I'm going to charge them by T&M because I haven't done anything even close to this to base an estimate on. Thanks again.

__________________
Complete Custom Remodeling
"When Quality is Top Priority"
www.completecustomremodeling.com

jmic

CCR,
Do yourself a favor and do not use that flexible black corrugated pipe. Use a solid SDR 35 or sched. 40 solid pipe. That corrugated pipe crushes to easily. For the little bit extra it'll cost you you're better off with the better pipe.

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Joe

C.C.R.

Thanks Joe, I'll do that.

__________________
Complete Custom Remodeling
"When Quality is Top Priority"
www.completecustomremodeling.com

Driftwood

IN the bay area ,S.F. all roof water [down leaders ] are tied into the sewer laterals ! Also street run off catch basins,get treated. If You let down leaders run on yard ,tie it in or Jail !! ,I was told. The oil run off from streets is kept out of the bay and ground !!!! Interesting how different locals deal with water .