April 2010 Lead Safe Practices - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

JonM · 09-27-2009, 08:08 AM

As some of you know a new federal law is taking effect in April 2010...On friday I took the class and recieved the EPA manual...I thought I would share it with the rest of you people. Its a PDF file I stored @ Mediafire

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=4...e866bfb1230ce0

Mike Finley · 09-27-2009, 08:32 AM

So how are you integrating this into your business?

JonM · 09-27-2009, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Finley

So how are you integrating this into your business?

We have lots of buildings here that were built before 1978...and if we don't follow this new law a homeowner can pretty much take you to court and say the contractor contaminated my house...you can also be fined (I think the fine is 35k and a year in jail) I think I will pretty much have to inform the home-owners. It will add allot to the price of a job because everything within 6 feet interior and 10 feet exterior has to be sealed off and decontaminated near any work being done...You should download that manual and have a look see.

http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/renovation.htm

Mike Finley · 09-27-2009, 09:03 AM

I've been reading it. It's only 300 pages. F&*king Feds.

What I'm curious about is how are companies going to actually incorporate this into their business.

If the house is built after 1978 it's a non-issue. The issue comes down to pre 1978. When you're face with one built prior to 1978 you now have to come up with how you are going to not only do the work, but how are you going to sell the work?

There is a lead test that if it passes without showing any lead makes all the extra time and money to be spent un-necessary.

Are businesses going to sell jobs as normal with a clause that the lead test will determine if additional costs are going to be incured by the customer as a change order to do the work in compliance? Of are businesses just going to roll the extra cost into every job, with every job costing more? And of course we know that there will be plenty of contractors who will just play dumb as long as possible in regard to all of this.

I think the assumption is right now that just any house built prior to 1978 will have contractors simply bidding higher on the jobs and just applying all these new work regulations to the job.

I don't really see it going that way and being so cut and dry.

By the way, like Obama's health care plans, this lead thing has pefect timing. Just what the home improvement industry needed right now.

angus242 · 09-27-2009, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonM

As some of you know a new federal law is taking effect in April 2010...On friday I took the class and recieved the EPA manual...

Jon, can I ask how much the class cost you?

oldfrt · 09-27-2009, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Finley

I've been reading it. It's only 300 pages. F&*king Feds.

What I'm curious about is how are companies going to actually incorporate this into their business.

There is a lead test that if it passes without showing any lead makes all the extra time and money to be spent un-necessary.

I don't really see it going that way and being so cut and dry.

My question would be how do you tell the HO that they need to pay for a test before any bid is considered applicable to total costs.
My thoughts are most HO's will forgo any testing because of the added costs involved and just say to go ahead and do the work.
But where will that leave the contractor as far as liability?

Going to have to read this,as it's news to me,and we do a lot of work on pre 1978 nomes.

Thanks for the post Jon.

angus242 · 09-27-2009, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldfrt

My question would be how do you tell the HO that they need to pay for a test before any bid is considered applicable to total costs.
My thoughts are most HO's will forgo any testing because of the added costs involved and just say to go ahead and do the work.
But where will that leave the contractor as far as liability?

Going to have to read this,as it's news to me,and we do a lot of work on pre 1978 nomes.

There is an opt-out clause:

"The RRP Rule:
“Opt-Out” Provision
• Homeowners may sign a statement to opt out of the work practice requirements in the Rule, if all of the following are true:
• The owner resides in the house;
• No child under 6 years old resides in the house and the house is not a child-occupied facility;
• No pregnant woman resides in the house;
• No child-occupied facility exists on the property;
and,
• The owner signs a written acknowledgment that the Certified Firm is not required to use work practices found in the Rule."

Doesn't answer your questions about who pays for testing but there is an out for legitimate, licensed companies.

oldfrt · 09-27-2009, 10:06 AM

I read this in the 2008 ruling:
Under the rule, child-occupied facilities are defined as residential, public or commercial buildings where children under age six are present on a regular basis. The requirements apply to renovation, repair or painting activities. The rule does not apply to minor maintenance or repair activities where less than six square feet of lead-based paint is disturbed in a room or where less then 20 square feet of lead-based paint is disturbed on the exterior. Window replacement is not minor maintenance or repair.

I imagine doing a whole house replacement could increase the job by thousands of $'s.
Very,very scary,seeing that I've been bidding a few of these and just realized this is in effect already.

So ,at this point I'm an Unaccredited renovator,unless there are no children under 6yrs in the home or they aren't regular visitors.
and;
what constitutes a regular visitor?
I'd have to tell some HO's their grand children can only come over once a month?
I just sold a job where the grand daughter comes by once a day for a few hours.
So now I'm suppose to tell HO that they need lead tests and price will go up accordingly.
WTF!!!
People are strapped for cash as it is,we're lucky to land enough work to stay busy,now we have to cut our own throats because of this?

I haven't heard of any Building inspectors locally that address this issue,but I guess it's only a matter of time.
The burden of fines will be the only detriment to taking on these projects now,as long as you don't want to play Russian Roulette with the system!

JonM · 09-27-2009, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angus242

Jon, can I ask how much the class cost you?

I paid 180 but it is normally 300...we got a discount because it was the first class.

Sorry I can't answer very long questions...I just got drafted to watch the neighbors kid while they are at the Patriots game...and this computer sucks

JonM · 09-27-2009, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldfrt

I read this in the 2008 ruling:
Under the rule, child-occupied facilities are defined as residential, public or commercial buildings where children under age six are present on a regular basis. The requirements apply to renovation, repair or painting activities. The rule does not apply to minor maintenance or repair activities where less than six square feet of lead-based paint is disturbed in a room or where less then 20 square feet of lead-based paint is disturbed on the exterior. Window replacement is not minor maintenance or repair.

I imagine doing a whole house replacement could increase the job by thousands of $'s.
Very,very scary,seeing that I've been bidding a few of these and just realized this is in effect already.

So ,at this point I'm an Unaccredited renovator,unless there are no
under 6yrs in the home or they aren't regular visitors.
and;
what constitutes a regular visitor?
I'd have to tell some HO's their grand children can only come over once a month?
I just sold a job where the grand daughter comes by once a day for a few hours.
So now I'm suppose to tell HO that they need lead tests and price will go up accordingly.
WTF!!!
People are strapped for cash as it is,we're lucky to land enough work to stay busy,now we have to cut our own throats because of this?

I haven't heard of any Building inspectors locally that address this issue,but I guess it's only a matter of time.
The burden of fines will be the only detriment to taking on these projects now,as long as you don't want to play Russian Roulette with the system!

I can be bought...I am certified...

The Ct Dept of Health has a list of people who run classes...it's a 9 hour class and they buy lunch...

oldfrt · 09-27-2009, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonM

I paid 180 but it is normally 300...we got a discount because it was the first class.

Sorry I can't answer very long questions...I just got drafted to watch the neighbors kid while they are at the Patriots game...and this computer sucks

Som Jon,
Is the class strictly for educational purposes or does it qualify you for any specific tasks?

Mike Finley · 09-27-2009, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldfrt

My question would be how do you tell the HO that they need to pay for a test before any bid is considered applicable to total costs.

Maybe the way it would work is you would present the bid normally for $10,000. and have a provision for X amount of dollars if there is lead to deal with.

Customers signs the contract knowing that before the project starts there will be a test conducted at the homeowners expense of $x.xx. If the test comes back positive, then the change order kicks in for whatever was in the contract due to lead.

This would just be a normal part of every contract you sign.

Of course within a week there will be some hack saying we will do it for $10,000 and if there is lead we will still do it for $10,000.

Aframe · 09-27-2009, 10:40 AM

JonM, Thanks for the reminder.

The only place I have heard about these new regulations is here at CT. Nothing from my city or state. Searching through govt. agencies for useful info is such fun. Hopefully others get information from their respective agencies.

Some questions for you if you don't mind.

Where did you take the course?
How did you find the training course? Building assoc. Local government, etc.
Any other info on getting training would be much appreciated.

Thanks
Andrew

Edit: Mass. info

http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=eohhs2te...r&csid=Eeohhs2

JonM · 09-27-2009, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldfrt

Som Jon,
Is the class strictly for educational purposes or does it qualify you for any speciic tasks?

About 4 hours is hands on...mostly spreeding plastic and taping it down, rolling it up and putting it in bags..a 20 question test that a 5th grader pass...It's JOKE

RCPainting · 09-27-2009, 10:51 AM

There is also Training for a Lead Risk Assessor, they test homes for banks and title companies for homes being sold. I am considering taking that training and offering Lead Assessments (for a fee) to any one who may be considering repainting/renovating. Offering it to HOs and GCs as a separate service.
What do you think?

RCPainting · 09-27-2009, 11:02 AM

There is a lot of info on the EPA Site
Here is the pamphlet that you must have HO sign
You can also order pamphlets and videos.
The EPA just starting approving Trainers, so there is not a lot offered, but that is changing.
Here is one source.

SLSTech · 09-27-2009, 11:06 AM

I take the class in Oct @ the Remodeling / Deck Expo - but from what I have read, I think that for most of us the only increased cost is just in the testing and all the d@mn paperwork, so besides that cost being passed on, what else is there that might bump the cost up?

RCP - I would think that would be a winner in quite a few markets (3rd party inspections, etc...) as for your market, I don't know. I am still figuring that one out for my area

oldfrt · 09-27-2009, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCPainting

There is also Training for a Lead Risk Assessor, they test homes for banks and title companies for homes being sold. I am considering taking that training and offering Lead Assessments (for a fee) to any one who may be considering repainting/renovating. Offering it to HOs and GCs as a separate service.
What do you think?

I walked into a project where the original contractor was fired and there was an issue with lead abatement.
It cost me $450 a pop everytime there was a test done.
Not bad money for a 2 hr sampling and written report on findings!

The original contractor was not certified for abatement,and there was a child under 6 in the home.
When I took over the project the child had moved out but the testing was already under way,so I had to address the issues.
Testing has to be done until the results were negative, so a minimum of two tests are needed,so count on repeated visits for each job site.

As long as your certified and meet all the criteria,could be good money,but I'd check on Liability rates before jumping into it.

RCPainting · 09-27-2009, 12:09 PM

You can use the latest Google Earth and use the timeline to see your area years ago, only went back to 1997 for Cullman, Alabama, but many areas go back to 1978. Kind of cool to see the growth!
My area is a fairly new and low population. We mostly do Custom Homes and Light Commercial so I will not get into Abatement. But I could be one of the few Risk Assessors in my area!

W-Tinc · 09-27-2009, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLSTech

I take the class in Oct @ the Remodeling / Deck Expo - but from what I have read, I think that for most of us the only increased cost is just in the testing and all the d@mn paperwork, so besides that cost being passed on, what else is there that might bump the cost up?

RCP - I would think that would be a winner in quite a few markets (3rd party inspections, etc...) as for your market, I don't know. I am still figuring that one out for my area

I talked to a guy in this dept at ua, was curious about some of the other lead classes. Not sure if this is true but he told me the class at the show would not work for Alabama, said it would need to be taken at a state sponsored venue.

I canceled and will probably take the supervisor class locally.