LICENSE GURU...CA.Fix-n-Flip Question...

Lynch

On all those fix n flip shows, the guys that buy the houses and do the work themselves can't all be licensed. If you buy the house and do the work yourself, how does that work as far as licensing? Is it just permits that you need to do any remodeling on your own house in CA ? And do you need to get permits for everything you're doing on your house ??

Thanks Guru! Movin' to OC soon and want to fix n flip!

Teetorbilt

Here they're called 'owner contractors'. As a homeowner you are allowed to pull permits and do any and all work on or around your home.

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SelfContract

I can't Google the term "Fix-n-Flip". Interesting, they should made it part of our modern dictionary (Merriam-Webster, Oxford, etc.) .,, or at least Wiki-Org web site?

SelfContract

Two reasons for license requirements (on all contractors):

1) For contractors: Avoid HO's contract suing, business insurance, qualification/competence, & responsibility when HO sue for damage or work related issues to their own properties;

2) For HOs: Not to sue the contractors & also sue back county/state government for NOT enforcing licensing contractors or not regulate contractors (in the first place).

Two reasons for no license requirements (on all HOs):

1) For HOs: America's Freedom of speech, Freedom of owning, Freedom of modification, destroy, own, buy/sell, or do whatever they want on their own lands, etc.

2) For HOs: Not to sue back county/state Government for RESTRICTING their owner rights, or doing anything to their own properties, etc. HO are totally responsible for their own right or wrong actions. If house explodes get fired by their own actions, HOs are totally responsible for their own damages and can not sue back county for NOT regulate, preventing them, and/or MONITORING their own actions (which also ADDS TOO MUCH costs to government already spent in enforcement/watching/zoning/inspection programs).

JumboJack

From the CSLB

What is an owner/builder?

This section defines what an owner builder is and the laws surrounding the practice.

• An owner/builder is what the term indicates. The person owns the property and acts as their own general contractor on the job and either does the work themselves or has employees (or subcontractors) working on the project.
• The work site must be their principal place of residence that they have occupied for 12 months prior to completion of the work.
• The homeowner cannot construct and then sell more than two structures during any three-year period.

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in texas with framing and cornish people will do it for 3.00 a foot. What do yall think about that? Just laber

Lynch

Thanks guys-

Jumbo Jack, you say the worksite must be their principle residence for 12 mo's prior to completion of their work- that means you cant move into your new house and do any work immediately- that doesn't make sens ??!!

Also, is it mandatory to pull permits for everything you're doing on your own home as if you were a licensed contractor working on a job site?? Do i really need to get a permit to tile my own kitchen floor, and then 6 mo's later if I want to tile the bathroom, I have to get another permit ?? That doesn't seam right either!?

JumboJack

That's a direct quote from the CSLB website.

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in texas with framing and cornish people will do it for 3.00 a foot. What do yall think about that? Just laber

fathersonfab

It basically means you need to plan on it being your primary residence for at least a year. You can't live in it for 2 months, fix it and sell it.

If you plan on "flipping" a house, you need a general contractor. in answer to your second question, What do you need permits for? A competent contractor will know what does and doesn't need a permit for.

The short answer is, hire a contractor... it will be money well spent and save you TONS of headaches.

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fathersonfab

OH and BTW.. you said you're moving to OC and plan on flipping? Where do you live now?
Orange County is not really a great place to be flipping now. Do you ahve any idea what the housing market is in OC, or house prices in OC? I live here...it's still expensive and no one is buying.

It's a great time to buy and hold if you can afford it.

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Lynch

fathersonfab, you said...

If you plan on "flipping" a house, you need a general contractor. in answer to your second question, What do you need permits for? A competent contractor will know what does and doesn't need a permit for.

The short answer is, hire a contractor... it will be money well spent and save you TONS of headaches.
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I would not hire a general contractor for my own projects unless I've got a few projects going on that I can't handle all on my own.. I am a contractor.
I'm not a licensed GC, but I'm certainly capable of doing all the cosmetic changes in a house, I've been doing it for years in CO and NY and over the past 3 yrs have been completely remodeling my house here in CO- will sell in a few months and move to Laguna Niguel/Dana Point. Thant's why I was asking about those boneheads on tv that do all their own work, usually w/ friends that certainly aren't licensed or contractors, and make some good money fast. How are they able to do those jobs- do they get permits for every little thing like tile and paint? I also know how to handle the role of GC on my own projects as far as finding the plumber, electrician, etc- if a guy doesn't show up or call, I'll find another one-I'm NOT gonna get screwed by some "contractor!" I've been primarily a painting contractor for 10 yrs but do all the cosmetic work as well.. carpentry, tile, sheetrock, cabinet install, wood floors, etc., I do it all and pay a LOT more attention to detail than most guys- I don't worry at all about my abilities as being my own GC or project manager- I'd never overpay a GC to do what I can do!

JumboJack

If you are going to be flipping houses and not living in them,that sounds like what you plan on doing,then you need a GC.If you don't use one then you are breaking the law.You may not agree with it but that's the way it is.

The job of a GC is much more than calling another sub if the first one does'nt show up....Being a painter for 10 years does NOT make you qualified to be a GC..Don't belive me?Try and apply for a GC license and list only your painting experence and see where that gets you...Good luck

P.S. If you need to ask about needing to pull a permit for painting,yeah you're ready to be a GC....lol

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in texas with framing and cornish people will do it for 3.00 a foot. What do yall think about that? Just laber

Lynch

OK JACK(fill in the rest)...I knew someone wasn't going to like what I said, especially any egotistical GC's !! What I was trying to get answered, that I made pretty clear from my first post, was all the fix n flip shows on tv (most of which take place in CA) where the new buyers aren't using a GC- they use friends, family, etc. HOW are they doing this legally ? It wouldn't be on tv if it was done illegally!

I'm not talking about being a GC for customers, I'm talking about being my own GC on MY OWN projects that require cosmetic changes. And I knew the "only being a painter" would come up. By trade I'm a painter (that's all I advertise for) but have done many remodeling projects over 10 years, including top to bottom on my current 2800 sq ft house. I do not NEED an overpriced GC to remodel a bathroom or kitchen, move a wall, build a closet, hang drywall, install cabinets or faucets or light fixtures or tile or doors or door knobs, etc... SO, being as capable as any GC to do this work, and believe me I pay much more attention to detail than most of them, then WHAT do I need an overpriced GC for ?? They are there to pull permits, delegate duties, CALL the subs, call other subs when they don't show up, and charge me for standing there!! Apparently as an owner, I can pull the permits myself and since I know how to use a phone, I can call subs if I need to, right ??

And I asked about the painting permits because apparently, from what I've heard since I don't yet live there, you need licenses/permits for EVERYTHING in CA ??

Thanks for your advice- time to start working on your next overpriced bid!!

JumboJack

Ha ha..What ever you say...I will think of you the next time I pull a painting permit...lol

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in texas with framing and cornish people will do it for 3.00 a foot. What do yall think about that? Just laber

Stone Mountain

I build decks. I don't remodel houses as a rule.
When I did some major modifications to my own house (took out a wall, flooring, tiling, bathroom, basement, kitchen, etc), I ran it all myself. However, I hired licenced trades: HVAC, electrical, and plumbing. My own carpenters dd everything else. I didn't hire a general because I had enough knowledge to do it myself.
However, in the next 2-5 years I hope to build my own house. I will then happily hire one of those "overpriced" GC's, because I just don't know enough.

If you don't know how to do something and someone else does, he's worth whatever he asks.

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JumboJack

Well the OP must know it all..Like all the things a GC must look for to keep a job going smooth.Like footing sizes,ufer's,hold down bolt locations,shear walls,strongwall locations and a million other things.And as a painter I'm sure he has a lot of experience reading plans .

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in texas with framing and cornish people will do it for 3.00 a foot. What do yall think about that? Just laber

Dustball

I can't speak for California but no permit needed for cosmetic work not involving electrical, plumbing, structural, HVAC, roofing and siding, doors and windows, etc...

Cosmetic work is flooring, wallcoverings, cabinets, woodwork, wall patching and so on.

Lynch- don't believe what you see on tv. How do you know there haven't been permits pulled for those houses shown in the tv shows?

Lynch

Stone Mountain...
Like you said, you did the cosmetic work yourself because you had the knowledge to do those things- that's what I was talking about. Yes, of course when there's something you don't know how to do you hire someone who does and building a house certainly falls under the category of "you need to hire a GC".

Dustball...
I'm sure there have been permits pulled for some of the work on those shows, that's just what I'm trying to figure out- if you're doing the work yourself, then all YOU have to do is pull permits, you don't NEED a GC for that ?!

JACK...
You STILL don't get what my posts are about- have you even READ them!? Did I mention ANYTHING about building anything requiring footing sizes, hold-down bolts or reading plans ???? I was strictly referring to COSMETIC changes!!!! I don't think anymore input from you is necessary !!!
Oh yeah, and don't forget to charge the nice naive elderly people just a little extra- you know, just in case the job takes a little longer than you thought...LOL !!!!

thom

Lynch

Here (Albuquerque) you are required to permit all those things. You don't permit each piece, you permit the entire job. Draw up plans detailing all the stuff you are going to do, then get one permit. Any changes in the scope require modifications of the plans (both sets, jobsite and city set) and a permit modification fee.

As for owner builder, that is allowable for an owner who is living in the house. The owner cannot hire employees or unlicensed subs nor can he have help from anyone who is unlicensed who is not part of his household. In other words, your brother can't help you.

The owner-builder permit is allowable only for an owner to work on his own residence. You would still be required to follow all the rules that a licensed contractor follows. In NM that includes covering every person who works on the job-site other than yourself with workmens compensation. If you employ a single individual other than yourself, whether sub or employee, you must have WC. Failure to have WC can be construed as negligence, even gross negligence (it is a violation of law) when an injured person sues you.

You call for the same inspections, provide the same details, and get the same level of scrutiny as a licensed GC. You will get charged for re-inspections when you get things out of order or miss things that you didn't know were required (like fha straps and nail plates, or missing or improper fire blocking, or inadequate numbers of fasteners, or fasteners in the wrong locations, etc).

I've known a lot of people who decide to build their own house as the first step in becoming a "rich" GC. Few make it through that first project. Most get divorced and blame their failures on their spouses.

JumboJack

Seriously.If you are doing anything that needs permits to be pulled on a house you own and do not live in and plan to flip it then YOU DO NEED THE RIGHT LICENSE FOR THE JOB...
Sorry not my rules.....

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in texas with framing and cornish people will do it for 3.00 a foot. What do yall think about that? Just laber

License Guru

Interesting thread... lots of

On one hand I'm sorry I missed this post when it was first put up, but on the other hand I'm glad I wasnt part of the battle.

I'd add my 2 cents but I fear I may get shot at as well.

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