Unions... The Next Big Argument In Senate

Vinny

Well, theres alot of talk out there but as with anything that has political ties, opinions are bolstered and puffed up on both sides of the argument to tell thier own side.

Soon the so called "card check law" will be in the senate. To the best of my understnding this will allow unions to organize a shop based on a single ballot vote that achieves a simple 51% majority. Where as currently there is an open ballot vote and a closed ballot vote and I believe greater that 51% is needed.

My take: I have never heard anything good about being a business owner and having an organized shop. I remember when I started to work for my dad some 24 years ago, and there were several union type operators in our area that had the mentality of "I work for the union, not the business owner". Or "I am an operator, I dont get off my arse".

This attitude had no place then and less of a place today. I would say this display of behavior had the most profound effect on forming my current opinion about unions. Couple that with all the bad stories about how you cant tell anyone what to do and the union basicly tells you how many people you need, how to emply them, at what point you'll need an oiler, and a laborer isnt allowed to start an air compressor, I vote UNION NO!!

I am a firm beleiver the card check law or AKA the employee free choice act is the worst thing that can happen to this country. Right now employees have the right to organize. No further law is needed. The false hope of better wages and benefits will result in closing businesses, cost increases to an already broke american consummer, and in the end, the entire country will end up like the steel industry is and how detroit will be: dinosaurs that cant compete and eventualy die a slow painful death.

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Roccies Asphalt Paving
The Right Way Driveway Company
If you say you cant, your a loser. If you say you wont, your a quiter. Which one do you want to be?

Noodle

I'm pretty sure thats well put and totally agree.

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"Ability is what you're capable of doing. Motivation determines what you can do. Attitude determines how well you can do it." Lou Holtz

rino1494

My friend is a Union mechanic. Pretty good guy, not the lazy type. He was on a pipeline job out in Indiana. In the morning on the first day, guys were standing around bs'ing and one operator was saying that if he didn't get anything with a cab then he was quitting. Well, the foreman overheard this convo and when it came to job assignments, he made him run farm tractor. The operator complained and said that he runs dozer. Foreman said, not on this job. Guess what, he quit. I can't stand unions myself, especially when it comes to teacher unions.

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Life is hard. It is harder when you are stupid

Uncle Sam wants YOU....to speak ENGLISH

tgeb

I can agree with that.

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Tom

www.gebcon.com

rocketmik

Without trying to start an argument, I offer that unions serve a necessary evil. I've been unionized and I'm happily working without a union and
so are my employees--which number fewer each day--but I treat my workers like family and pay them well. On a large scale, I believe unions are
needed to combat huge corporations' greed. On balance it seems that the employers abuse the workers which leads to unionization which leads
to abuse of union power which leads to the collapse of the union, etc. Mike

denick

From what I have read of the legislation 1 employee can show up and start the process. The employer does not have to be notified. And if the employer knows about it they are not allowed to have any input or contact with the process. If 51% want the union the company is now union. There are heavy fines to the employer for any infraction $20,000.00 +. If the company were not to unionize letting the employee(s) go who tried to bring in the union would almost be impossible to let go for any reason. There is no possible misconduct on an employees part. This will be company's with more than 3 employees. I think thats full and part time.

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Nick

"Every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life are based on the labors of other men, living and dead, and that I must exert myself in order to give in the same measure as I have received and am still receiving" Albert Einstein

concretemasonry

Who do you think provided major funding to the last election, especially those that opted out of the federal funds and the requirement to disclose the sources of the contributions in detail? - A well orchestrated plot.

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Dick

Engineer, designer and consultant recently active domestically and internationally on construction and design in about 35 countries.

dayexco

if i'm ever "forced" to be a union shop.....i'll have an auction. if they want to nationalize the water/sewer business, they can do so without my blessing.

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someday, i'll be as patient as Nick.

roof-lover

Change we can believe in....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMNVIQqatyU&NR=1


Free choice act? you would think that this sounds like a good thing.
The truth is its the very act of taking away your free choice.

rshackleford

i feel unions have contributed greatly to the economic situation we are in today.

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whatley posse

rshackfleford

kycontractor

My father used to own a crane and lift equipment rental company. We had 2 unions, Teamsters (truck drivers), and Operating Engineers (Crane Ops.) Well the Teamsters decided one day that it wasn't fair for the crane op to drive HIS crane to the job, because that fell under their contract, and the oiler (OE) couldn't drive the escort truck, because they also felt that fell under there contract!

Well Dad wouldn't give in so they (teamsters) struck. So he didn't have a choice... So on a simple 3 man job you ended up with 2 teamsters (to drive the crane and escort truck) 2 operating engineers (crane opp. and oiler) and 2 more teamsters to drive the counterweight and jib trucks. So your paying 6 guys union wages to sit all day.

Well Dad saw where this was taking his company, so he sold out and guess what... the company that bought him ... BANKRUPT in 1yr!!! Screw unions!!

kycontractor

Oh and I was in the OE local 181 when I worked for dad and don't get me wrong I enjoyed the great pay, but I firmly believe that if the company wasn't union it would still be around for me to take over and pass down to my kids one day.

sorry got off on a rant.

rshackleford

and what about davis bacon pay? from a workers point of view this is great and the pay is huge! but from a management view it costs a ton of money to work one of these jobs. what they call the prevailing wage doesn't even come close to what people in the area are really getting paid. we are talking $15/hour more than normal. the unions are then ones who have driven up this rate. this costs the taxpayer so much money!

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whatley posse

rshackfleford

Vermaraj

The key provision they are trying to change is the voting process. Currently there is a secret ballot to vote in the union. What the unions want is an open ballot. Ostensibly so they can strong arm workers into voting yes and punish those who vote against. I can't believe the congress would even entertain the concept but I guess everything is on the table at this point.

By far the most ridiculous rule is the touch rule. Say you are placing an air handler on a steel platform located on the roof. Should be a four man job. One crane operator, two riggers and an iron worker to weld it in or a millwright to bolt it in. Under the touch rule at least one tin knocker and one pipe fitter need to be on the job because technically air handlers are part of their trade.

Celtic

What?
No electricity?

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bwalley

Florida is discussing a constitutional ammendment to protect us against this crap.

The day I have to become union, is the day I lock the fuqing doors.

mack1273

I think its time for the 2nd AMERICAN REVOLUTION, Socialist Goverment is (trying to )Take Over This Great FREE LAND. LIFE,LIBERTY AND PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS is at Risk. Continue these Great Arguement/comments And We The People Will Be the great country our Grandfathers and GrandMothers worked and fought for so hard Again

macatawacab

this thread is excellent and as independent business people we are the back bone of this economy. not just as the construction industry but our overriding attitude that we can and will take care of ourselves without the governments help or intervention.

We need to be vigilant and work to preserve our freedoms that are being taken away from us day after day. I don't care who you voted for, you have to be upset with the whole Wall St rules differ from Main St rules. Our tax dollars are paying Wall St bonuses. Is anyone surprised that Congressmen and White House advisors have been taking big dollars from the bailed out companies?

I live in MI. Can't believe bankers get billions for the asking but auto makers have to meet all kinds of criteria.

Back to the thread..........why do you think you did not hear from the UAW about GM going bankrupt? Shouldn't they be crapping their drawers that the pensions, health, and jobs are in jeopardy? The UAW is not complaining because they know they will be taken care of. The fix is in with the "Freedom Act" for employees.

But I digress. The best thing in MI right now is Spartan basketball.

woodchuck2

I too agree that unions have their place and can be benificial, but that was about 40-50 yrs ago IMO. Now union greed has forced the employer to look for cheaper and faster ways of production. This is why all of our raw materials go to China, this is why everything you buy is foriegn made, and why we as Americans are a dying breed. We as well as unions have gotten greedy, it will be the Mexicans who prosper from our greed now. Anyone who goes non-union to support their way of life becomes labeled a hack or cut-throat by the unions and those who support the unions.

The local paper mill here had all of its employees strike about 5yrs ago and they were on strike for a good year. The mill said screw them and their demands and fired them all if they didnt come back to work. Needless to say after alot of property damage and death threats the strikers were in the unemployment line looking for new jobs. Even to this day these guys will tell you how great the union was and they are still pissed at the mill since alot of these guys lost their homes, vehicles and their benifits. I could never get it through their heads that it was the union that convinced them to strike, not the mill. It was their greed and stupidity that caused them to loose their way of life, not the employers.

Vinny

You really cant compete with the thick headed defeatist mentality of most union gloms.

So as stated before me, I too will lock my gate and walk away if my crew to were to vote in a union.

I'm not blowing smoke in my a$$ but I've given away the F n candy store these past few years figuring why not share in the good times with the guys that made our company. But if they turn on me with a union vote, they can starve to death on an unemployement line.

Though this entire discussion can turn out to be for nothing. I'm to understand the Repulicans will fillabuster and pull out the cook books and start reading for weeks on end until the Dems say uncle. I dont know if this would work, but they better do something

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Roccies Asphalt Paving
The Right Way Driveway Company
If you say you cant, your a loser. If you say you wont, your a quiter. Which one do you want to be?