SCRATCHER Questions

PipeGuy

We've been kicking around the idea of buying a mini-excavator. Last week my partner had the chance to run a late model Cat 436 backhoe for a couple of days and he loved it. Now he's thinking a scratcher is the better way to go (vs. a mini-excavtor).

I've only run Case and Cat scratchers and have never purchased one. What kind of scratchers do you guys own/operate? What kinds do you steer clear of? My experience tells me Case/Deere/Cat are all good machines. Any make I'm missing worth considering?

How 'bout 4-wheel drive? A must have or a maintenance headache? I'm thinking our scratcher work is 85% roadwork 15% sitework.

What's your service experience with 'extenda-hoes'? Are they hard to keep in good order (we don't have any hacks running the stuff)?

I'm a believer that EROPS tend to make operators lazy (plus, as an operator, I never managed to 'rate' anything but the older OROPS machines). Do you see EROPS as a must have given the mindset of today's operators?

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Little

I gotta ask, whats a scratcher??? Also what do you mean by mini excavator?? As we have 3- Cat 303 "mini-excavators" and they have their ups and downs.

PipeGuy

Around here, in my industry, backhoes (tractor loader backhoes) are referred to as 'scratchers'. I guess its a local thing.

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rino1494

You do pipe work, right? Honestly, I think that a backhoe would be beneficial to you. Throw on a set of forks and you can carry your pipe, water pumps, tools, etc... Also, you can use it to feed your gravel box. A 4x4 is a must with the mud. We have a old Case 580D that is 2WD. It works good, but when we get in the mud, it is worthless.

Our Case is a extendahoe and is a definite with a backhoe. You really couldn't do too much with a standard hoe. As far as a mini-ex, what you really do with it ??

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dayexco

i agree w/rino. there've been times when we need to go back to a job and tweek something. i don't view them as anything to do any production work with, but would be damn handy to go in with after the big stuff has moved onto the next project

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someday, i'll be as patient as Nick.

tgeb

Like Rino said, what do you plan to do with it?

I have a case 580 SE with extendable dipper and have had no problems with the extension at all.
Bear in mind I have been the major operator of that machine for 20 yr.
I would not get a backhoe with out the extendahoe option.

Enclosed cab is the way to go for me, much more comfortable in bad weather, not worth a damn in the summer without a/c, but worth the trade off. However on your sites it may end up an open cab in a few weeks anyway.

As far as 4 wheel drive, I ran a few 580's that had it and it does make a huge difference in getting to the ditch with a bucket of stone or backfill. The 4x4 will ride up the dirt pile where the 2x will start to plow out, better floatation. Never had any problems with the 4x4 systems if maintained and if not used on hard roads, (that will eat the tires, as well as stress the system.)

Now then, I also have a mini ex a bobcat 435 zhs a zero tail-swing model and I use it more now than I do the backhoe, but I work on tight sites.
The 435 is the largest zero that bobcat makes and is close to what the 580 backhoe can do as far as reach, but will not compare in terms of raw power, backhoe is much stronger. But also weighs about 4K lbs. more.

With a mini you don't have out riggers to contend with so you can work in closer quarters, you can dig a trench in an area that a backhoe can barely drive through. They are fast, dependable, and can grade well with the dozer blade that they have. As you know a mini ex can't carry materials, that's pretty much the downside.

Give me a call if I can answer anything else.

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Tom

www.gebcon.com

denick

Pipe,

What job are you looking for the machine to do?

A mini excavator can do what your big excavator can, just to a smaller scale and more conveniently. I love mine and I wouldn't be without it.

If you want an all around machine that can run up and down streets, carry material, and load trucks.

When I think about the days when we did road work how nice it would have been to have a machine that could have several loader buckets, forks, broom, rake, or custom attachment on the loader end and several size buckets on the hoe, a hammer, a plate compactor, a thumb, an auger, an articulating grading bucket or an custom attachment on the stick. Give a good guy a cab and heat and AC tell him to pack a lunch because he isn't getting off that machine.

I'm almost talking myself into taking CAT up on their year end sale on an IT 420 with all the attachments. Just wish I did more than 1 street job a year.

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Nick

"Every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life are based on the labors of other men, living and dead, and that I must exert myself in order to give in the same measure as I have received and am still receiving" Albert Einstein

PipeGuy

Now THAT'S the cats ass. I wasn't aware of that line of backhoes. We have a couple of IT wheel loaders and like you, they make me wonder how we ever got anything done with the old 'screw on' forks. I'm going to look into a 420.

__________________
Fortunately I keep my feathers numbered for...for just such an emergency. -Foghorn Leghorn

rino1494

haha, we have the screw on forks. They are a pain, but they work. We figure, use what you got. If you had everything that you need, then you wouldn't have to work, right ??

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dirtdiggencat

I cant imagine starting any e & sw project without a wheeled hoe on or within "run n get" distance of the site. imho,,, its the most versatile, cost effective piece on the job. i can tolerate a case, wont allow a deere, and own cat machines. as for 4 wheel drive, well u wont miss it if u have never used one, but after running one for a shift or two,,,,, you wont tolerate anything less. we like the fold over forks. ours are heavy duty and they are out of the way til u need um,, then they are right there with the machine instead of on the other side of the site.
i personally have mixed feelings on the "extenda-hoe" idea.
good luck PipGuy with ur decision.

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SiD
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dirt diggler

Are you talking about a Backhoe??

I've heard "scratcher" before ... but

Definitely 4WD and with an extenda hoe

Little

I agree, a backhoe is definetly a good versatile machine to have, if you don't have a loader as well as an excavator. Extend a hoes are great, you can dig farther and reach more without having to move as much, and of course a grappling bucket is always a plus a well for picking up concrete and such or when you need to grab some stone on pavement. We have the CAT 420's and they are pretty good machines, the only thing i don't like is sometimes they can be a bit jerky and you have to just stop for a second to regain control. Also if you get a backhoe with the tires that are as wide as the bucket up front, maneuvering close to the curbs sometimes sucks.