Rippable Rock...

ElIngeniero

I, like many of you at some point or another, am not being paid for a rock job I'm on. I hit rock in the middle of december on a mass grading job I'm working on. There are NO geotech engineering reports to my knowledge so the job certainly isn't classified. The owner's engineer is the 3rd party representative throughout the process and has been quantifying the rock. I've taken a number of pictures of the dozer ripping the material and the smoke flying off behind the dozer. However, the GC on the project claims I only experienced 'delayed excavation' and will not be paid for any rock. This seems like a fancy way of getting around a rock clause. Is this typical and I'm just missing the boat here? I've completed a number of jobs in which I charged for rippable rock. The engineer's field reports even classify it as rippable rock. The GC is denying the change order with a claim that rippable rock is, as a standard practice, not beyond the project scope. Am I missing something here? Please advise.

denick

E,

It sounds like there was not a clear understanding somewhere. We always stop work when rock is encountered and get it in writing as to how to proceed and how we are getting paid. If that wasn't done before hand.

Do you have a contract? Does it have a rock clause? What does it define as rock? It's hard to argue these things after the fact.

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Nick

"Every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life are based on the labors of other men, living and dead, and that I must exert myself in order to give in the same measure as I have received and am still receiving" Albert Einstein

Blas

Typical...... Delayed excavation...... Rock is rock, I would shut her down, that usually seems to get the ball rolling. If anything the guy will learn not to mess with you in the future depending how much you already have into the project and how often you work with this GC. If there is nothing in the specs or your contract about rock I would say you at least have an argument. Besides delayed excavation, and ripping should be just as expensive.

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"It is what it is"

denick

E,

I should say our only rpping of rock is with excavators. We would be excavating with a bucket and hit rock. Then we would stop and change to a ripper tooth. Our excavations are not wide open areas.

If you were dozing earth and encountered rock. Then just lowered the ripper and kept producing it seems harder to plead the case.

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Nick

"Every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life are based on the labors of other men, living and dead, and that I must exert myself in order to give in the same measure as I have received and am still receiving" Albert Einstein

rino1494

It really depends on what your rock clause states. It should mention rippable and non-rippable rock. Either way, I would fight it tooth and nail. How many yds of material are we talking about ?? You say a mass-grading job, I am assuming a large commerical project.

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dayexco

if this goes head to head, i'm sure owner is going to open the spec book and point you to the page where it says..."contractor shall familiarize himself with the site before bidding" or.........."such costs shall be considered incidental unless otherwise noted by the engineer"...i wish you well, but i think you're screwed like a housecat.

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someday, i'll be as patient as Nick.

ElIngeniero

There are no borings or specifications on the project (the owner is a church and is trying to save as much money as possible I suppose). We have a clause in our contract that spells out "If rock, mud, dewatering...etc is encountered, it will be at cost+price". We also have a mass rock and trench rock price in our contract. They are saying, however, that since we didn't do any blasting and we (& the engineer) are classifying it as 'rippable rock', we can't get paid for said rippable rock as it is not an unsuitable material.

We were digging with 2 330 Excavators and getting it out s-l-o-w-l-y so we brought in a D-8 with a ripper. We actually cut a significant amount of rock thinking we'd get through it and not have to change order it.

We're talking about 12,000 CY's of rock. I spoke with the GC yesterday and he claims that we can get paid for 'delayed excavation' but he didn't think we were delayed very much so he wants us to bill him at an hourly rate. I think he's doing this because the amount of time we were delayed is a bit more open to discussion whereas the amount of rock is not (the owner's engineer has been quantifying the rock from the start and is in complete agreement with us).

I've been looking for a site like this for ages--you've all been a wonderful help!