[Upchuck]

Hi, my name is Chuck & i've been lurking on this board for about 6 months. I've found the forum has informative & funny members. I'm 38 years old & started in construction when I was a kid. My father started our company 32 yrs. ago and we have grown from doing driveways & lawns to residential & commercial excavation, subdivisions & utility work. Even though I am fairly young I think I have an old school mentality. I rarely question our prices. It seems to me that more than ever people are working just to make their payments. I just bid a small house excavation the lowest price blew my mind. My first post will be a "How much" post. I will describe the job, anyone interested feel free to give their estimate then I will post my bid & the winning bid.

1. Strip loam (1/2 acre lot)
2. Excavate & backfill 28' x 48' raised ranch (trench 4' frost walls)
a. Due to low grade of the lot 1' to 2' of fill will be needed inside & outside the foundation. (Fill not included in bid.)
3. Sub grade & compact floors for concrete guy.
4. Sewer connection
a. Tie in 6" pvc 18' in road 10' deep.
b. 70' in lot, 6' deep.
5. Water connection
a. Tap 1" copper, 12' in road 6' deep.
b. 70' in lot 5' deep.
6. Pave trenches
7. Re-spread loam
8. Box out driveway 70 x 24, 14 x 10, (100 tons hardpac).

Thanks in advance.

[silvertree]

Your kidding, right?

[wizendwizard]

A new approach to an old arguement!

I would charge $XX,*** for all of it.
Now since I don't do FREE ESTIMATES you can mail my check for $275.00 to:

Adept Home Repair Services / I.C.O. Anthony D. Phillips
1470 Blacks Dr. Williston, S.C. 29853

I will be happy to deduct that amount from your final payment if I am sucessful in winning this bidding oportunity.

[dayexco]

last thread like this took a whole bottle of advil...i'll pass.

[Upchuck]

Actually I'm not kidding & i'm not trolling for someone to bid my work. Over the last few years I have grown frustrated with the amount of guys that are working for what I consider to be to cheap. I have already bid this job & didn't get it. Just looking for some comparisons. Also, I wish I could get paid for my estimates but around here everyone gives free estimates.

[dayexco]

Originally Posted by Upchuck

Actually I'm not kidding & i'm not trolling for someone to bid my work. Over the last few years I have grown frustrated with the amount of guys that are working for what I consider to be to cheap. I have already bid this job & didn't get it. Just looking for some comparisons. Also, I wish I could get paid for my estimates but around here everyone gives free estimates.

then what you need to do, is show us your/their proposals, and we'll either laugh with you, or at you. better yet, don't.

[wizendwizard]

Originally Posted by Upchuck

Also, I wish I could get paid for my estimates but around here everyone gives free estimates.

And now a word from our "Free Estimates" sponsor.....Mike Finley...

[Upchuck]

I saw that thread. I'm not here to insult anyone or act like I've seen it all & done it all. There are plenty of those guys in our business.

[rustyjames]

I could use a laugh too but I don't feel like working for it.

[dayexco]

well upchuck, if you're content with your proposal, the others don't count. can't have every job. you by now know what it costs to operate, and if the others fug up, they won't be around long....hang in there dude, i'm 55, and gave up a looooooooong time ago trying to compete with the cheapest hooker on the corner. good luck

[Upchuck]

Thanks dayexco

Probably not the best 1st post. I was just surprised how low the winning bid was. I always hear how the cheap guys won't last but when one guy goes under it seems like there is another to replace him.

[Handymanservice]

Originally Posted by dayexco

then what you need to do, is show us your/their proposals, and we'll either laugh with you, or at you. better yet, don't.

I think this would be your best bet to get this type of question some serious feedback. Then again, what does it matter, could you have done the job for less? Or the price that the other company won it for? If your overhead would not allow that price, it doesn't matter that someone can/ will do it for a lower price than you.

I am just as guilty and get frustrated when my price gets beat.

[dayexco]

Originally Posted by Upchuck

Thanks dayexco

Probably not the best 1st post. I was just surprised how low the winning bid was. I always hear how the cheap guys won't last but when one guy goes under it seems like there is another to replace him.

upchuck, my dad started in 47, i took over in 80....you ain't getting rid of the lowballers...you just need to provide the BEST service at a fair price....and cater to your core of good customers...an example...we did ALL the site work for one developer on 160 acres of housing development...he never asked for a price...said treat me as fair as you can...we did, and we're still working for him. we give him no problems, he pays us well. people have tried to underbid us, but this guy knows that if he REALLY needed his yard raked, we'd be there.

[wizendwizard]

Originally Posted by Upchuck

I always hear how the cheap guys won't last but when one guy goes under it seems like there is another to replace him.

Lets examine something.

Based on what we have learned in this thread we have to assume some things.

You bid on a job and lost to a lower bidder.

Hypothetically we assume that both competitors are licensed, bonded, and insured.

Competitor 1.

Has a family of 4, pays $27,000 a year in insurances, pays $40,000 a year in equipment payments. Lives in a 5 bedroom home on the really good side of town. Has payments on 2 cars. Has 4 employees.

Lets say his bid is $97,000 on the project.

Competitor 2.

Single, pays $16,000 a year in insurances, pays $22,000 a year in equipment payments, lives in an apartment on the middle income side of town. Has an 94' Ford F150 paid in full. Has 1 full time employee and hires day labor.

Lets say his bid is $62,000 for the project.

This example shows that he isn't a bad guy, he just has lower operating cost than competitor 1. Therefore he can bid $62,000 and still make the same amount of profit as his competitor.

On the other hand he may just be a lowballer thats out to personally ruin competitor 1's business....

[JDavis21835]

Most of those bozos around here think they can make up their cheap prices in volume. I worked for one like that. We did a water, sewer, storm sewer, and chemical containment system in a chemical plant that was built before the underground was put in. They were lowest bidder at 850k, second was 1.5 million. Company was owned by the owners father, and leased to the project, when it was felt like paying.

Project was from the hours of 6pm to 7am. Each night started out at 5pm for a project manager, he had to fill out paperwork to get work permits for what we were doing that night. The crews night started at 6, with moving manlifts, forklifts, and other contractors material out of the way. By 7pm, we were able to get our stuff out, while the dozer man went through and stripped stone from the area we were digging in. So now at 730 we start digging. Work until 11, eat "lunch" because between the hours of 12am-5am gates are locked, no one in, no one out. So now we work until 430, then finish backfill, stone the area again, move other contractors junk back to where it came from.

Last I heard, he is still in business. But from what Im hearing, he goofed big time. Most of his work is for one general contractor. He hired a few people away from the general, and the general isn't receiving that too well. Mind you, its hard to work for the general. Bid the project, then they knock 20% off the top for themselves, while you lower your price by 20%

[tgeb]

Originally Posted by upchuck

I will describe the job, anyone interested feel free to give their estimate then I will post my bid & the winning bid.

I'll take a shot at this.


Just kidding, I don't have time for this sort of thing.

I will tell you that I spoke with a framing carpenter today that is doing work for a contractor that I used to do all his excavation and concrete.

The framer is starting a big addition for this guy next week, I asked who is doing the excavation and concrete work. Turns out the guy he is using is reportedly about 30% of what I had been charging.

Am I upset that I no longer work for this GC? No not really, my prices are what they are, I don't use illegal labor, pay taxes and insurance, my equipment does not break down mid project.

If some body wants to go with the lowball guys, let em.