Buy A Excavator First Or A Track Loader?

4theroc

Hey I'm about to get into the excavating business and clear lots. Mainly i'll be clearing lots first and im wondering wether, I should get a excavator first, like a hitachi ex 120,cat 312, etc. or should i get a 4n1 track loader like a 953 or John deere 655B, or something older like a 955L. Im in a toss up because The excavator seems to be a lot quicker, but takes a long time to move debris around compared to a trackloader. Hey if any of you guys got one forsale for a resonable price, let me know thanks

PipeGuy

If it's smaller lots you're ypically dealing with, less than a couple of acres, I'm not sure I'd buy either. I think i'd look hard at Bobcat's T-Series compact track loaders and Cat's multi-terrain loader series equipped with some grapple/root/ rake attachments. The best lot clearing guy I've seen around here is set up that way with a logging/boom truck and his three man crew (lead guy, saw guy, laborer) can roll through a moderately wooded 1 acre lot in no time. I'm amazed at what the skid steer track loader can do in terms of lift capacity and maneuverability and with the custom attachments they leave the lots in great shape.

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4theroc

Yea but i dont plan on cutting any trees down with saws, I just wanna get on the machine and blast through all the big trees, and sub out all of the logging.

Gmads

I agree with PipeGuy. I think a large skid-steer or compact track loader will offer you a lot of flexibility while having a lower cost/hour of use whether maintaining, repairing , transporting, etc. With so many attachments available, you don't limit yourself if other oppurtunities arise. I think you could easily supplement with rental if you needed a larger piece.

4theroc

I cant see how a T-300 or a 277 or a 287 cat will got up to a 100 year oak tree and push it down. Seems like a compact track loader is just for small tree's 8" in diameter or less and brush. I think im going to just get a track loader

4theroc

Besides, if u get a call to excavate or remove 500 yards of dirt, I think a track loader or excavator would definetly out work a compact track loader

denick

4,

You would need to add a lot of information about where your from? What market are you going to serve?
What are the typical conditions on jobs you will be doing?
What size jobs are you thinking you will be doing?
What scope of work will you be taking on on each project?
What are you most experienced on?
The customers you want to serve, what are they hiring now?
Will this be hourly work or are you going to be bidding contract prices?

This is just beginning of the list that pops into my mind.

__________________
Nick

"Every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life are based on the labors of other men, living and dead, and that I must exert myself in order to give in the same measure as I have received and am still receiving" Albert Einstein

4theroc

well im in va. typically lots down here are heavily wooded, I will primarily be doing residential and commercial work. I work flat rate for jobs, you can make money working by the hour. The size jobs i will take on will be anywhere from a 1/4 lot to 2 acres. Alot of stumps and debris will be generated from these jobs and believe me you dont see anybody down here clearing lots wit compact track loaders.

denick

4,

What do you own for a truck and trailer to move equipment?

These lots are heavily wooded, but are they old mature trees with big stumps or second growth stuff that isn't as big?

Do you have to load all this debris out and haul it away?

Do you encounter much ledge in your area?

What work do you already do that this machine could help you out with?

Will you be doing the entire site work portion of jobs?
Foundation hole?

Do they dig full basements where you are?

Utility work? Road openings?

Septic and sewer?

I think your in tgeb's backyard he is probably able to answer all this better for you.

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Nick

"Every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life are based on the labors of other men, living and dead, and that I must exert myself in order to give in the same measure as I have received and am still receiving" Albert Einstein

PipeGuy

Everybody and their brother has enough skill to rip and gouge their way through a lot, bust up every tree canopy within 100 yards and leave something for the builder that looks like a moon scape; and all for cheap. Most of those guys can also manage to move 500 or so yards of dirt if need be and probably move half that much anyway by the time they cover the timber in dirt while handling it and fill all the root ball holes.

If you want to be able to charge more than the next guy you need to provide something he doesn't. That might mean offering the capacity to selectively clear the lot if desired. It might mean handling the timber in such a way as loggers are inclined to pay you more for it. It might mean using rubber track equipment to eliminate the risk of busting up streets.
You may not see it where you are but you can rest assured there are plenty of guys making good money at lot clearing usisng skid steers and compact track loaders. The economies involved with moving, operating amd maintaining that equipment, compared to that of traditional crawler equipment, makes it an alternative worth looking closely at. In fact, I have two 953 B's and given the ground conditions I typically work in and tasks they typically perform I'm seriously considering getting rid of at least one of them for a 287.

__________________
Fortunately I keep my feathers numbered for...for just such an emergency. -Foghorn Leghorn

4theroc

I have one 1984 GMC 7000 single axle dump and 2 1991 gmc topkick single axle dumps, I sold my 1990 tandem axle volvo back in septemer. My 84 is an ox GVWR on it is 28000 lbs, and my topkicks are 31000 lbs. I buy and sell trucks, so it really isnt a issue to get a bigger one. I usually buy and sell about 6-7 per year. Its another side business for me. I'm about to purchase a 20 ton tag trailer because in the next several months or so Im going to purchase a Sterling tandem axle dump truck. Hey "PIPEguy" how much do you want for that 953b trackloader?

tgeb

Hi 4theroc. Welcome to the site.

I am going to go out on a limb and guess you are in the southern region of Va. since most of northern Va. has been bulldozed over by now.

I also recommend a smaller machine.

I have some people that I have worked with and grew up with whose family has been clearing lots and developments for nearly 50 years, the family owns a sawmill near here.
These guys started using a New Holland 885 loader with steel tracks about 12 years ago to help with clearing and loading. It works out well for them. Now to be fair they also have cat track loaders as well. But the large skid loaders are quite capable. If you take your time you can drop some pretty big trees with a small machine. And clean up is much faster.

It is up to you but the initial investment as well as maintenance of the compact track loaders is much lower than the big iron. Heck replace the tracks and rollers on a 953 and you're about 1/2 way to paying for a new 287.

Combine the low ground pressure of the small loader, with the root mat friendly rubber tracks and you could find yourself servicing, or creating, a niche market that the other guys have not even thought of.

As more builders are looking for ways to sell themselves as environmentally friendly or "green" your ability to cause less disturbance to wooded areas could put you on the cutting edge of an emerging market.

As you said Not yet anyway, but they will be soon. the question is will you be one of them.....

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Tom

www.gebcon.com

4theroc

yea im down around central va. Richmond area. Well you nobody has said anything about messing with and excavator lol. I guess thats out the picture for right now. So hey if anybody has a 277 cat or a t300 let me know. I just sold one of my dump trucks and im looking for a good deal

denick

4,

You haven't said wether you will be doing any utility work. If you are that makes a big difference.

Thats why I listed my questions as I did. I noticed your post on dozers. If you are getting a dozer for grading. And I think you need a lot of grading to pay for a dozer. You are looking to have a few pieces of equipment to cover a wide range of work.


From the little you have said I would look at a 18,000 to 20,000 LB excavator CAT 307 or the like with a blade, quick-fit and attachments and a dozer D3 size if you have a lot of grading. Or the large tracked skid-steer if your grading requirements are only part of what you need a machine for. The attachments available for the tracked skid-steer are a very big advantage.

Again I would defer to tgeb on your areas soil and the grading requirements you have.

__________________
Nick

"Every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life are based on the labors of other men, living and dead, and that I must exert myself in order to give in the same measure as I have received and am still receiving" Albert Einstein

Cat385

I used to get by just fine clearing with my 257b. In our area we have a lot of sand. So the bigger stumps I would just dig out. Now that we have a 315cl with a thumb I use it also but still use the 257 as much as possible as it's a lot cheaper to run.

Cat385

Here is a few pics of the 257 on some clearing jobs

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4theroc

Whoa! Cat 385, i guess i needed to see it to believe it. Thats exactly the size trees i was talking about. Ya i didnt plan on doing any utility work,and man if you can do that with a 257 i can only imagine what I can do with a 277 or a 287. Okay i guess im sold. But im still going to get an excavator to. Looking at a Hitachi ex 120 right now. ITs got 7200 hours, brand new under carriage. the guy will let me get it for $18k

LNG24

Pine Trees are easy to take down. No deep root system. Up here in NY, you would need an excavator as well as a skid steer. I am use to a 38k lb machine for stumping, but I would like to see what the minis can do. Right now I have had the opportunity to work with a Volvo ECR-88. Seems like a very nice machine, but havn't had the opportunity to stump with it other than two 50' pines. I would like to see what it could do with an old Oak. We were moving some large boulders with it and it handled them fine.

rino1494

I do alot of lot/land clearing. We used to use our 955, but now use our excavators. With a thumb on the excavator, you can do anything with it. It is so more efficent and faster. With one excavator and a sawman, I can clear a 1/2 acre lot in one day. That includes stacking all logs, getting rid of brush and loading out all stumps. We haul our stumps out in tri-axles, that is one thing you can't do with a skid steer. Also, if you get a big tree that is near the property line and is leaning towards the neighbors house, what machine would you rather take it down with ?? Also, if you plan on expanding your business, you can dig the foundation with your excavator and install utilities, etc...

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PipeGuy

It's clean, runs well, has 11,560 hours on it, and the tracks are on "run out". It has a closed ROP, no A/C, GP bucket. S/N 5MK01698.

I'm not looking to sell any iron at "deal" prices. I can sell at a "below market" price if you've got the financing lined up and we don't have to work through a dealer. PM me if you want to see it.

I worked down in Hanover County for about a year back in the 80's doing sewer work in Mechanicsvile - lived in Highland Springs. Are you over that way? Seems like most of the action is west of town these days.

__________________
Fortunately I keep my feathers numbered for...for just such an emergency. -Foghorn Leghorn