Below Grade Membrane

Grumpy

I'm not sure where to post this? Excavation, concrete, construction, roofing (has nothing to do with roofing but has to do with waterproofing)?!

Anyone have any opinions on tamko's TW-60 below grade membrane for water proofing foundations? Any membrane you recommend for water proofing foundtions below grade?

denick

Grumpy,
I am not familiar with the brand you asked about.

We have used the MiraDRI membrane by Carlisle with very good results. Some very critical areas done with no problems. The membrane has kept all moisture out.

http://www.carlisle-ccw.com/PRODUCTS...=%22miradri%22

You need to pay serious attention to the prep and application though.

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Nick

"Every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life are based on the labors of other men, living and dead, and that I must exert myself in order to give in the same measure as I have received and am still receiving" Albert Einstein

mdshunk

All it takes is for a careless equipment operator to backfill with a couple nice goonies, and whatever membrane you chose isn't worth squat. About once a year I have a nice one smashing a conduit flat.

747

I don't understand. Under description it says ambient temperature of 40 F or above. Thats not Chicago in the winter. So does this mean it would be contraindicated in the Chicago area?

denick

That refers to the air temperature during application. There is another product to use down to 25 degrees at application

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Nick

"Every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life are based on the labors of other men, living and dead, and that I must exert myself in order to give in the same measure as I have received and am still receiving" Albert Einstein

denick

We recommend 2" styro insulation over the membrane and a drainage board over the insulation and a sand backfill.

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Nick

"Every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life are based on the labors of other men, living and dead, and that I must exert myself in order to give in the same measure as I have received and am still receiving" Albert Einstein

maj

Grumpy, I posted this a while back in a thread about PWF's (Permanent Wood Foundation). So as you can see, I recommend it.

Nick & Marc are correct also on the installation and backfilling procedures. As you well know, the application of the product is more critical than the product itself. We use pearock for backfill, so the chances of tearing the membrane are slight.

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Tom R

Based on your question I think it is time to call a water-pro.

maj

I was waiting for that one!

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PipeGuy

I think the term 'waterproofing' is a bit of a misnomer (sp?) when it comes to belowgrade structures. I think the best you can hope for is good damproofing.
In the abscence of a decent drainage system, most waterproofing membranes simply will not be bulletproof. I see quite a bit of this stuff http://www.atlasconstructionspecialt...ofing/7-9.htmlused in combination with asphalt damproofing.

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denick

About 13 years ago we did a job with the product I described. On a large weekend home that was being built the lady of the house became distraught as we formed the foundation that there was not enough closet space for her things in the master bedroom. The architect wouldn't change the design so he added a closet exterior of the house into the bank. An underground closet with 3' of earth over it. This house was built two stories into the hillside and we had running water running through the cellar all during construction and the land had a 2 acre pond 60' away on the up hill side 6' higher than the foundation. We (my wife and I) covered all three sides and the roof as I described. This room was completely finished off. The painter just repainted that room. He said that room was like he left it 13 years ago. The carpeting cost $ 9,000 for that room 13' x 26'. They took it up and had it cleaned he said and there was no sign of any moisture.

I think that membrane is working.

One note to anyone except someone who has insurance as a WATERPROOFER. Do not say you will Waterproof anything. Most Insurance companies will drop you in a minute if they find out you are selling WATERPROOFING."MOLD" If the job requires you to apply a material. Only state that you will install ****** material as manufacturer specifies.

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Nick

"Every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life are based on the labors of other men, living and dead, and that I must exert myself in order to give in the same measure as I have received and am still receiving" Albert Einstein

747

i was going to say that a excellent membrane is just the first step you need a excellent perimeter drainage system also.

Grumpy

That's installation temprature and pretty much the rule for all peel and stick type membranes. This stuff is just super thick (60 mil) ice shield.

Around my area the spray applied damp proofing is the most common below grade treatment you see. IMO that stuff is completely worthless. I haven't done anything below grade, however one of my employees has extensive experience doing below grade water proofing with similiar membranes on the casinos in Vegas. Rather than asking which products he used I was searching around for available and quality products. Tamko seemed to stand out.

Normally I wouldn't touch anything like this. The situation is, as I said spray applied damp proofing is most common, a builder I work for (roofing siding gutters) is bidding a multi million dollar house where the architect called for "single ply roofing membrane" to be used to water proof the foundation. Anyways the builder's damp proof guy doesn't do anything other than spray applied damp proofing so he asked if I would shoot him a bid.

Peladu

Now you have me all confused (pain pills going strong today, so it's not hard).

You have an opinion that the spray is worthless, yet you acknowledge the fact
that the spray is all you see used in your area (Chicago).
BUT, you are taking advice about proper waterproofing from someone who
does waterproofing in Las Vegas Nevada?

But for what it is worth, I have only seen new foundations sprayed, and never wrapped. If it was so worthless, then why are all of the builders
using it. Why would the communities allow it. You know as I do, the Chicago
Building Department would be all over it and require foundations wrapped, if it were useless.
To be fair, I do not know what the standards are in Vegas, maybe they
all have to wrapped in Vegas? I dunno and duncare.
I am sure it's done, but to say that a process being used all over your area
is completely useless, doesn't jive with me.
Can you tell I spray my foundations?

Grumpy

No either I wasn't clear or your pills are realy kicking in.

I've never done the below grade damp proofing. I've seen it done many times and these guys just spray it out. It looks like thick spray paint. I've seen it before it's back filled and I can't see how it does anything at all. I mean it's not a thick uniform coating, it's just like I said spray paint. Perhaps this is attributed to improper installation techniques but if so it seems like nobody does it right.

I'm not taking advice from someone who does water proofing in nevada. I am bidding something the Architect from IL specified. "single ply roof membrane" were his words to be exact. The person who did the below grade work in Nevada did these kinds of membranes, and while they are certianly NOT roofing membranes they are almost always manufactured by roofing manufacturers. BTW in Nevada it's the "roofer's and waterproofer's union".

So while your confusion seems to be that the guy from nevada is telling me to do this membrane, that's not the case at all! When the builder asked if we did the membrane I told him, "No but one of my guys has before and I supposes we can do it for you if you really want us to." It's the architect who wants a membrane, not my ex-nevada employee.

Peladu

Grumps....what you said above is the same as saying that the spray on bedliners for pick-up trucks (I have the Rhinolining) is nothing more than spray paint? Also, you have to look at it chemically, it chemically keeps the water away...but this is going too far off of what you need)..

To answer what stemmed my confusion is this:
Nothing more, nothing less....
I am gonna guess that this Architect isn't a local dude.

But, I hope you get the job, learn something new and retire rich doing it.

Grumpy

I don't think the rhino lining is the same thing Pela. I think the rhino lining is much much MUCH thicker. I have never seen the damp proofing applied nearly as thick as the rhino lining. Rhino lining is about 40 mil thick. I can't see the metal underneath. The rhino lining is a spray applied seamless membrane. When I see damp proofing being done I can see the concrete beneath. There is no way it's more than 5 mil thick maximum.

In regards to the architect, I don't know if he's local or not. He has Chicago address and an IL stamp. However the water proofing membrane product being mentioned is more commonly used on commercial type structures. It's probably way overkill, but that's sometimes what makes a $ 2million house worth $2million.