Backhoe Vs. Mini Hoe/Skid Steer

dirt diggler

For digging pools, I personally haven't used anything else than a backhoe (with a 2-3 ft. bucket) --- but im an open minded guy

however, I used to work for someone who used a mini excavator and a bobcat to do the excavation

In fact, I know of a lot of other pool companies who use that system

So which way is better?? production wise

You get more in a 3 ft. bucket --- but you're also having to stop every 45 mins to work on your pile.

with a man on the mini hoe and another in the skid steer --- one can be digging (less quantity) while the other can be removing (and piling)

I would think it'd be the same cost wise ... but there's a lotta other companies doing this --- just wondering if im missing out on something

denick

dirt,

I don't know the size and acess conditions of the pools you might dig but here in our area I've dug 300 or so pools in 35 years and we use a 30,000 to 40,000 LB excavator. After 1988 we got an articulating grading bucket and it really made things easy. All the pools we dig are gunite about 32 x 24 to 48 x 28. We've been in a lot of very tight spots. We can dig a 20 x 40 in 3 hours of just digging. It takes the pool company more time to form and set up than for us to dig. This size machine hasn't got many problems with casting the dirt out of the way. And it can load trucks fast enough to do a pool quickly if its a haul away job.

__________________
Nick

"Every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life are based on the labors of other men, living and dead, and that I must exert myself in order to give in the same measure as I have received and am still receiving" Albert Einstein

ruskent

Dirt Diggler what are you doing digging the pools yourself??? I'm planning on subbing out all excavation as long as i can.

I thought about it real hard. Most installs i will need to truck dirt out. That means i have to hire trucks and pay for dumping.

If i hire a excavator they often need fill on other jobs and they have the trucks to haul the stuff out and can keep the "flow" going faster since they are not waiting on 'for hire' trucks. Also the excavator will come in with a larger machine then i could afford to buy, so they will be able to set the fiberglass pools in the hole also. Saving me on a crane if the access is good.

Well thats my plan. We will see how it would work out. Might be hard to find a excavator contractor willing to do all my digs since it seems like i will be working in a 100 mile radius of my house. The fiberglass manufacture is sending me leads from all over the state!

Matt

MC Excavating

I have dug about 200 plus pools here in southern California. Access is rarely ever good enough to fit a full size excavator. All my excavations where done using Bobcat skidteers. What ever size was necessary to complete the job. Occasionally our backhoe attachment would come in handy for those rock and sand jobs in Rancho Cucamunga to pick out boulders that where locked in by other boulders.

dirt diggler

Honestly Matt ... for fun. On one pool, my excavator sub was real slammed on some other (larger $$) jobs --- and I had some dead time, so I figured I'd do it myself.

Had a blast!!

But no, ordinarily, yeah I sub that out too.


I'm excited for your venture into the pool biz. At least I'll have someone on here to share pool stuff with. Can I ask why you're going into fiberglass though??

dirt diggler

yeah --- i mean, i see the benefits of the bobcat/minihoe in tight spaces

but i still/have see/seen builders use them on wide open sites with great access.

I dunno, I may try it just once and see

dirt diggler

HA --- COOL

ruskent

Dirt Diggler- I've done my research and i feel fiberglass has alot of advantages over gunite and liner pools. But the main reason is because i think it will be helpful having a manufacturer behind me. Lets face it, i am a young guy just like you. I feel it will be ALOT easy to sell pools that are back by a 10 year warranty on finish, and a lifetime warranty on the shell by a National Company. It gives people a more sense of security. If my business tanks they still have a warranty.

Another thing is i get leads from the manufacturer. I've recived a 4 in the last week and its not the time of year people are usually thinking about pools. Once spring rolls around i wouldn't be surpised if i am getting 20 -25 leads a week from them.

Also i ran the #s. Fiberglass pools are extremely profitable. It looks like in most cases i am i will be in and out in a week if i just do the pool. I'd have to lay a hell of alot of pavers to clear in a week what i will clear doing pools.

I adventually want to get into gunite pools, but i need to build up my companies reputation up first. I know the high end customers all go for gunite. I'm looking at targeting people that want more then a liner pool but do not want to spend as much as a gunite pool. Gunite starts at 50k in my area.

BTW i'd like to have a Cat 312 and dig the pools myself, but i have to think about what makes me the most money.


Matt

dirt diggler

The quickness of the job certainly is a benefit, as far as profit goes....

One tough nut to crack will be going against the companies that are doing 200-300 (or more ) fiberglasses a year. They've got a system down and they can crank those babies out FAST. Since they do so much volume, their margins are low to begin with. That nut can be cracked though


I guess you can still run into that in any other industry though
ouch...

it's nice to have the manufacturer behind you .... but ... eh ... I get worthless leads from my vinyl pool manufacturer all the time. And the lifetime warranties get so wrapped up in words that in the end ... well, it's still my tail on the line.

ruskent

In my immediate market there are no big fiberglass companies. There are a few companies within 40 miles that do fiberglass pools. None of them really market to hard. It really seems like the only advertising any pool company in my are does is the yellow pages. And it seems like everyone is swamped.

I have seen the national companies web sites that clain "You could be swimming in 1 day!"

Matt

dirt diggler

HAHA --- and in fine print, it says "please not that we did not specify that you would actually be swimming in YOUR pool"

I got called for a reconstruction of a fiberglass that was literally "thrown" in inside of 2 days. It was about SIX INCHES off level

6 inches