Super Stop Leak For R22

hvaclover

Let me put it this way: If this job was easy everybody could do (and there are some guys who think it is).
We as servicerers have the responsibility of following quality work methods
which include staying with in the mfgs install and service requirements.

Show me where Copeland endorses the use of the gunk to stop leaks and I'll agree with you.

I hate to say this but refrigeration system servicing, as practiced by a great deal of AC guys, leaves much to be desired. You will find more moisture in R22 systems used for comfort cooling then in any other sector of refrigeration. That's not me just spouting that, that's surveys conducted by HVAC NEWS< RSC Magazine. All reputable and top of the heap authorities.

So saying, since this gunk is activated by moisture are you going to chance putting it in a system that has had several other guys do a gas and go on it?

Dr Heat

So if the customer does not want to pay to tare out walls or the folks upstairs say no way. You as a good tech willing to do the tough job would walk away, sorry Mr and Mrs ho your f'ed because although others have success with leak seal I as a purist refuse to use a product that is not endorsed by the manufacturer. Even though your warranted is over and we have no other option sorry.

They can do it the old fashion way open the F'ing windows. By the way that will be $650.00 now I need to go home to my air conditioning.

PS: give them my number Ill get them a few more years of ac.

Making them run that is the job right?

Willis15

I read a few and had to stop. I agee with C-LOVER. You are about to create a restriction. If you really want it fixed, you first need to understand that topping off a system each spring is not required. The cooper tubing should be impenatrable, sealed, closed... Get the point!?! Follow EPA guidelines and recover your R-22, pressurize the circuit with nitrogen and spray your joints, coils, and u-bends with bubbles. Your leak can be located. Once found and repaired, replace your drier and replace the factory recommended charge and ask the ditributor how much more may be neccessary for your line set. Fix it right the first time and don't hope for these gimmicks to get you by, they'll only cost you more in the long run. If you aint qualified, find someone who is!!! This isn't a DIY job for the handyman or homeowner looking to save a buck. Did i mention the EPA?
lASTLY

Dr Heat

So you would rip out three walls in three apartments to find a leak in a system that is ten plus years old rather than install stop leak after informing your customer of the potential risks?

Keep in mind I have used this on several occasions NEVER had a problem with a metering device after.

How many systems have you used supper seal in?

How many malty story or malty family homes do you work on?

Do you ever work on systems others installed.

Knowing when to use a patch or when to buy new pants that's what separates the men from the ?

flashheatingand

Never used the stuff, but there may be scenarios in which it it may be the best solution. Most homeowners care about getting the system fixed right, but at a minimum of expense. Frequently, the expense thing is the priority. Doc lets the home owner know about the leak sealer and the potential drawback. If the homeowner chooses super-seal, sobeit. If the repair man wants to volunteer his/her time to look for the leak the old fashioned way...great. But it isn't fair to the customer to put "your professional pride" before the customers best interest. Afterall, time is money. If all they want is a patch, then patch it.

Granted, there is a fine line betweeen a homeowner wanting a patch and the service provider encouraging a patch. But thats another topic

flashheatingand

Why the EPA? If the gunk seals up the system I would think they would be happy with the stuff.

flashheatingand

I do recall an article in which some technician was hearalded as a hero for saving an institution (hospital I think) a lot of money, by using some form of gunk. The system had always leaked before.

I respect both opinions. You shouldn't have to use gunk. When trying to locate a hard to find leak, I like to isolate each component (refrigerant lines, evaporator and condensor) pressurize each one with nitrogen, come back a day or two later to see which component did not hold, and take it from there.

However, the situation could arise in which the equipment is "old", and the home owner doesn't want to buy new gear, and doesn't want to spend a lot of money looking for the leak. I don't think it's unethical or hack-like to use the stuff in this case.

Willis15

Do you take everyones suggestions this personal? We' haven't had luck with it where i work and our service manger steers us away from the stuff ( i don't remember wahat it was called though). Do what you've got to do my friend, i wasn't trying to offend. My point was if you are able to repair it in the traditional fashion why not try to. Wasn't sure what effort the guy put into leak search before adding gunk to his system, that's all. Now chill, I apologize if you think I stepped on your toes.

Dr Heat

Well if you are sidding with Drac on this he said anyone who usses seal is a hack. Now I sing the praises of supper seal in the right situation. Which makes Dracula's comment very personal (He called me a Hack ) it doesn't get any personaler then that.

Willis15

Fisrt and foremost i sided with hvaclover and thats as far as i went, just for this reason. I called nobody a hack. I'm not even sure what level of skill the guy posting this article has. I tried to methodically explain a method of leak searching for a man who is a POSSIBLE do it yourself-er. Just trying to be helpful!!! READ thoroughly before you acuse the wrong person of offending you! Take that issue up with Drac!!!
This thread starts off with the question " has anyone used..." sounds like a green quaestion to me. I am done with this one

thepartsman

I posted a while back on this subject and it seems a few more posts have popped up, unfortunately there still seems to be a misunderstanding about the stop leak itself.

There are two concepts in the manufacturer of A/C stop leaks, one is based on a polymer activation and the other is never activated. You can easily tell the difference by looking at the packaging. The ones that are in metal pressurized cans are polymers and are the ones to stay away from, while the liquids in simple plastic bottle are the save ones.

One post said he saw snot coming out of his gages, this is a polymer type and it should be "outlawed". The other type is "non activated" and will never create slime, thick, hard or granular floaters. Additionally, they are not seal swellers (as someone posted) and will do no harm to any rubber or component.

I laughed at the comment made that it... "sounds like a salesman", regarding my last post. Well I am a salesman and HVAC specialist, but I also happen to be a mechanical and chemical engineer that has personally designed and manufactured many products for the worldwide industrial marketplace. One particular product is the number one selling ac stop leak and it truly makes sense to use it when a customer does not have the money or the time to tear their house apart. As Dr Heat says, "Knowing when to use a patch or when to buy new pants that's what separates the men from the _____ ".

It may be that some of you are not up to date with the newest technologies, but chemicals are light years ahead of where they were just 10 years ago. Additionally, there are dozens of unscrupulous companies that would sell there mother to slave traders if they could make a buck on it.

I would like to give you a real world example (and even a phone number for verification if you write me personally), of why you all need to reconsider stop leaks.

A highly respected HVAC man in N. Florida, who is the maintenance engineer for an entire country government, had a major problem with leaky A/C units. Because the county had a minimal working budget they were unable to afford to replace or substantially repair dozens upon dozens of systems in various municipal building. After treating with our Stop Leak, all leaks were sealed and have been now for over two years. He told me that he even found some units were drawing less amperage to run, 35 to 5%.

I know this post is going to draw a lot of criticism and skepticism, so I am saying this as clearly as possible. I hope everyone reading this will at least open their mind to new ideas and at least consider the possibility that as things change, we need to reconsider what my have seemed impossible only a few years ago.

As a final note I would like to comment on what "hvaclover" posted....

"We as servicerers have the responsibility of following quality work methods which include staying with in the mfgs install and service requirements."

"Show me where Copeland endorses the use of the gunk to stop leaks and I'll agree with you."

"You will find more moisture in R22 systems used for comfort cooling then in any other sector of refrigeration. That's not me just spouting that, that's surveys conducted by HVAC NEWS< RSC Magazine. All reputable and top of the heap authorities. So saying, since this gunk is activated by moisture are you going to chance putting it in a system that has had several other guys do a gas and go on it?"

1. Manufactures continually change their opinions over the years and many times it is a 180 degree shift. Does that mean the first opinions was actually wrong when they were saying it was right????

2. Again, we are all human and make mistakes and opinions change as time goes along. Remember when mold was turned into penicillin????

3. Moisture was mentioned and that seems to be the biggest complaint about using a stop leak, according to this tech. Well what if the product did not activate by moisture, would it then be OK in his opinion???

I have worked with systems for decades and I appreciate all of you letting me spout about this. Yes I believe A/C systems can be harmed by some stop leaks, but I also believe and can prove that others work and do no harm. Just open your mind to new ideas and at least get the facts straight before attacking a product, especially one that has potential for helping millions of people in these economically troubled times.

BigMikeB

I learned a long time ago there is no such thing as a mechanic in a can. The only way to deal with a leak is to find it and fix it.

__________________
The Veto toolbag, the Louis Viton of tool transport. The official toolbag of rich guys.

DCHVAC

What happens if you need to open the refrigerant loop for a compressor change out or some other reason? That would let oxygen and moisture into the loop. Wouldn't that junk turn into cement through the system??