Solar hydronic heat - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

flashheatingand · 11-24-2008, 09:49 AM

A few months ago, I put out a post in regards to solar hydronic heating systems. Well, a couple of days ago, I was talking about it with a plumber (green heating and all). He mentioned how somebody had a setup in which the storage tank was located below the garage slab. What they did was they took out the slab in the garage, dug deep enough to install a tank, and re-poured another slab. I thought hmmph... what a clever idea.

I don't know, much about the whole solar radiant heating thing. I think it's interesting, and would like to get more involved. Just wondering what others think.

valleyairPhilly · 11-24-2008, 10:20 AM

Get more information, get trainings. I would not start to get into doing work on something you don't know much about so just learn up more informations and take seminars... You should be able to figure out all you need from them. We have not offered these systems yet though, we've recently delved into geothermal.

flashheatingand · 11-24-2008, 11:04 PM

Come on homey it will be kids play. I am sure the panels are a dime a dozen, and, tearing up the concrete slab and driveway, oh yeah refininshing the concrete...no problem, two weeks max.

Ok, seriously, There really isn't too much going with solar programs here, an occasional "class" from some manufactorer, but really there isn't anything locally. Not an excuse. It would take research and, I certainly would not start such a task without doing it on my own property first and/or fully disclosing my history/experience. It's just I was wondering if other heater dogs are interested in solar heat, and, what other green options are pretty cool. I thought it might be considered an interesting topic.

threaderman · 11-25-2008, 07:55 AM

It would seem to me that the advantage of the tank under ground is strictly for space,because I really don't see any geo-thermal advantage here,or little at best,because the unit certainly could be insulated on the top-side.I could be way off,I'm just discussing .I have considered training in solar installation and having bein staying in touch with a solar panel contractor who is not a licensed plumber and we thought we may be able work together on a few projects.He writes the contracts and I can't work for the proposed hourly wage [when it's broken down] ,that he needs to get the bids,so I let it go.He's new to the business and giving the work away,or sacrificing the plumber,I'm not sure.Locally,I can't find training for squat,Oklahoma city is lame.I would keep looking for some firm facts before doing this.Let me know how this progresses.

SLSTech · 11-25-2008, 10:11 AM

I don't do H&C but this makes no sense - why put a tank in the ground exposed to moisture, where the temperature is a constant 45 - 60 degrees, & inaccessible (unless you break out the Concrete slab)?

The only time I have heard concrete & solar together is for pools. They encase the supply & return lines in the pool deck (just like radiant floor heating). This is done to heat the pool water & cool off the pool deck. Supposedly it adds about another month or so to the pool season & cuts down on the hot foot syndrome.

threaderman · 11-25-2008, 11:13 AM

Actually, the ground holds a lot of heat in cold temps and piping for heat pumps are often run underground for its heat and insulating properties.It's a great way to plumb the system,but I agree that a tank underground is iffy.I am constantly trying to learn more about these systems as it is an effective insulator.Maybe someone here knows more than me,which wouldn't be hard

,and can educate us a little more.

DavidC · 11-25-2008, 11:28 AM

I'm not a HVAC or plumber, but am interested in the topic. I'll be installing a solar/wood system in my own home this winter.

I can see the advantage to an underground tank depending on your location. Underground you only have to insulate to against the fairly constant 40-50 degree if you're below the frost line. It takes more insulation to protect against -30 if your in the north. Access through the garage flloor wouldn't be that difficult, but I'd be a little concerned about leakage into the tank from the garage flloor. Overall I would think the expense of installing it would outweigh the benefits.

Good Luck
Dave

spheatandair · 12-03-2008, 10:04 PM

The coolest system I ever saw in Boulder was one that had a LARGE capacity of water stored in a seperate room off the side of the garage, in this instance it was under ground and VERY well insulated room with 8" thick styrofoam inside the concrete room (a basement would also work well) They had 1500 gallons connected to 8 large panels (4X12's I think). It was designed in the late 70's and we just helped the owner fine tune the flow rates and reseal and insulate the original water panels. A cool link I found for research is www seia org . Good Luck!

flashheatingand · 12-03-2008, 10:36 PM

How effective was this setup. If the system was designed in the late 70's, are the homeowners pleased with the system. Time is the ultimate test.

nhmaster3015 · 12-03-2008, 10:55 PM

Believe me, the cost of the equipment and the installation will never, ever pay for itself. Let's all be real here. If all these alternative solutions were truley viable then why would you need government subsidies to help pay for them? The answer is simple. Because they are not economically feasable. It's great fun to design and plan these things and to believe that somehow your plan will be better than everyone elses plan, but it's all been done before. There are guys called "engineers" that believe it or not, design these systems and can figure out to the penny what the operating vs installation cost will be. And the news isn't and never has been good unless you live in Nevada. Want to play around with something that has some real promiss? Check out 3 phase heat pump inverters.

flashheatingand · 12-04-2008, 07:06 PM

three phase heat pump inverters? I know about heat pumps (and think they are a simple effiecient "green" alternative), I know about three phase, but not about the inverter part. What is the deal with them?

nhmaster3015 · 12-04-2008, 07:27 PM

From what I hear, and I may be confused cause I'm old now but still, I think I have the gist of this. What they do is to take 240 Vac and using an inverter, convert it to 3 phase Dc current to run the motors and all. Very very efficient from the rumblings I hear.

flashheatingand · 12-04-2008, 10:09 PM

Sounds like some kind of Tesla thing. Isn't he one of your peers?

spheatandair · 12-05-2008, 01:00 AM

In the early days of solar the goverment did have some great rebates for solar. At the home I described in earler thread they did over 80% of their total space heating and also domestic hot water. Over the last 20+ years I am sure they have paid for the equipment cost and up keep. Most of the hot water systems do take very low maintaince. When properly designed.