HVAC_Ryan

"Out of plane" F/D Installation:

First off: there are integral Out of Plane F/D sleeves out there, I know.

Do any of the sheet metal guys out there know where to locate the SMACNA variation showing acceptable installation of out of plane F/D? We've encountered a minor snag with such a F/D (Funny thing is there wasn't one there before, but all things come to an end eventually).

The floor it passes through is pre-cast hollow core. The way we've installed it was:

1. F/D in Standard sleeve. Riveted in place to allow secondary sleeve later. (Horizontal Install)
2. Unit Placed above "Fire separation" and angled off, riveted again. (Sleeve continues through)
3. Secondary 12 ga Sleeve of welded construction over top of initial Fire Damper sleeve.
4. Fire caulk around seams where space exists between primary and secondary sleeve & at floor penetration.

Note:

• NO caulk came into contact with the F/D to ensure it wouldn't distort.

• "Concrete" Floor is pre-cast & had no F/D in place initially. We placed the F/D out of plane as it was not possible to cut the concrete without risking even greater damage to the floor. Thus we didn't cut the hole larger to accomodate the Integral F/D

Suggestions, need a laugh?


Thanks for any USEFUL suggestions!

__________________
"They must find it difficult...Those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority." - Gerald Massey

ScipioAfricanus

Can you post a picture or a cross section of the fire damper sleeve or the problem you are having?

I spent 12 years in the commercial HVAC trade and for the life of me I can't remember installing a horizontal F/D. Getting old I guess.

Maybe I am just having trouble getting a visual on the problem.

BTW my brother is president of SMACNA or was for years, not sure if he still is.

Andy.

HVAC_Ryan

OUT OF PLANE FD.pdf


It's the one on the right, only we used a type "B".

__________________
"They must find it difficult...Those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority." - Gerald Massey

ScipioAfricanus

Ah, I think I understand the problem, the "out of plane" thing threw me, I guess it is supposed to be "out of wall".

I don't think anyone makes a fire damper that is supposed to be anything but straight vertical or horizontal.

I remember now installing 'bigger than penetration' F/D by custom fabricating sleeves that penetrate the floor or wall at the proper size 16 ga. or thicker, then on the underside the sleeve will allow for the F/D to be inserted then TIG weld the corners and flanges from the inside.

After welding the the corners then insert the over sized F/D of course.

The custom sleeve is two piece like a clam shell.

Does this make sense or have I got the whole problem wrong?

Andy.

HVAC_Ryan

"I don't think anyone makes a fire damper that is supposed to be anything but straight vertical or horizontal."

We've installed an HB (H Horizontal, B out of stream) fire damper, Inside a standard sleeve, surrounded by a 12 ga sleeve.

The installation you describe is very similar to what we've done. We're especially looking for examples (ie. SMACNA described) of what others have done that was approved. I've wanted the SAMCNA manuals for awhile now, and think that we'll be purchasing them sooner rather than later now.

__________________
"They must find it difficult...Those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority." - Gerald Massey