Radiant In Amish House

ksensen

I've got a new one that I could use some help on. Just asked to give a price to do all the plumbing for a new Amish house in my area. They also asked me to price installing a radiant system in the basement slab and the first floor. The heat source will be an outside wood fired boiler. My problem is without any electricity how do I circulate the water, control different zones etc. I thought about having just 2 zones, 1 being the basement and 1 the first floor, with 2 circulator pumps powered by some type of solar system but not sure. Anybody have any input or helpful suggestions?

22rifle

This all depends on what kind of Amish you are talking about.

Are you positive they are not allowed to have electricity?

ksensen

Electric is fine they just can't be connected to the grid. So solar, wind, propane generator etc is all allowed. It's just I'm sure they aren't going to want to set a Generac generator just to power a couple of circulator pumps.

22rifle

OK. How knowledgeable are you about radiant systems? I ain't trying to make you look bad or anything. Just trying to get a feel for what is going on before I say much. Send me a private message if you wish.

mdshunk

You've got the damper solenoid to power on those outside wood boilers too, and that's very important. You can use some EL Sid pumps for your loop(s) (they're 12 volt, and intended to run off a solar panel), but I wouldn't. I'd probably just use a regular solar/battery/and 120V inverter system. I'd probably use zone valves in leiu of zone circulators, to conserve power, and just use one pump. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to have a 120V generator connection to charge the batteries too, in case the need ever arises.

If you're thinking you can do this project with no electricity, just get that out of your head. Radiant will circulate quite well without a pump if you omit flow checks, but you can't "stop" the flow once the space is up to temp. I found out the hard way.

ksensen

Thanks for the input guys. 22rifle I will be the first to admit that I'm not an expert in Radiant, I have been only within the past year begun to venture into radiant projects. My background is primarily plumbing not HVAC. I have done two fairly involved systems this past year and it has been a learning process. I have worked with some HVAC/radiant guys on them to learn the ropes. The Amish builder told me to price out just installing the tubing to a manifold and they would worry about circulators and controls later. I can do that but I would like to have some answers if they decide to complete the hookup sooner rather than later. - MD- that is along the lines the builder and I were leaning. He is actually checking into solar/inverter packages. I was leaning towards zone valves over zone circulators although I am not a big fan of zone valves. But that may be the only option. The Amish out in this area have some pretty creative ways of doing without electricity. I thought maybe just maybe there was something I wasn't thinking of or aware of that would be tailor made for this situation.

mdshunk

Not that I know of. There used to be a company made some sort of trick pneumatic expansion control for the firebox damper, but I don't think they make it anymore. As you know, that's pretty important on an outside wood furnace, so you don't turn the whole thing into a flaming nuclear reactor in the side yard.

ksensen

22rifle- just looked at little closer at your specialty- didn't realize you specialize in radiant floor heat.-- Any words of wisdom or advice I'm all ears. I am curious what manufacturer you lean towards, I've been using Roth not sure I have enough experience to judge their quality, don't really have any complaints other than from my limited experience it seems like visible flow meters on the manifolds could be a nice addition?

Teetorbilt

I'm thinking of some sort of bicycle drive, they always have plenty of kids and neighbors to help out.

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22rifle

There is an unlicensed Amish dentist down in TN that a kid driven stationary bike to build up the juice to power the light he uses instead of x-rays. I kid you not. Some of my friends just used him 6 months ago. You gotta make your appointment by mail.

solar man

A 12 or 24v DC circulator system with a Belmont Circulator Control System is an excellent choice for radiant heat in Amish houses. The system has integrated boiler controls that can also be used for powering an outdoor furnace.

MechanicalDVR

I miss visiting over here and reading your analogies.

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nhmaster3015

36 years of solar and radiant experiance tells me that without a reliable and constant source of electricity the best thing to do here is run like the wind in the opposite direction. This project will end up being a constant headache.