R-22

MattK

What are the main differences between R-22 and R410A? I know R22 is being fazed out over the next year, but is it worth it to get all the components and coil for that system or is it better to upgrade to the other one? I think 410A is the more common one going forward right?

flashheatingand

What is your situation? Do you have old equipment and are considering replacing it altogether? If so, I recommend a r-410 setup. Having said this there are scenarios in which a r-22 replacement is worth considering. If someone is offering a r-22 system at a clearance sale price, I probably would jump at that. Just be aware that in 2020, the production of r-22 will cease.

MattK

Having a new system installed in my house. AC ready but nothing as of yet. Trying to learn the differences in pricing to see which is the most cost effective for energy bills and up front cost.

flashheatingand

cost effective / energy bills, that all deals with S.E.E.R. ratings. A fourteen s.e.e.r. system that uses r-22 versus a fourteen s.e.e.r. that uses r-410 is equal in regards to power consumption.

One analogy I will use: R-22 is a VCR as to R-410 is a DVD player. You can watch movies either way, it's just that in the future it will be more difficult to find find cassettes. Generally, I reccomend the r-410 setup now. However, if you can get a "killer" deal (brand new) with a r-22 system, it would be worth considering.

mdshunk

R22 systems (not the refrigerant) will cease production on Jan 1, 2010. The prices of the systems and compressors are already going way up. I got a quote on 30, 2-ton condensing units in January, and when I just purchased them they were 15% more last week. I expect them to nearly double in price the next two months, to pretty much mirror what happened with the r12 refrigerant prices in the last 6 months of legal production in the early 90's.

There is absolutely ZERO efficiency to be gained by simply switching from an r22 system to an r410a system of equal SEER's. In fact, the efficiency can even be a percent less due to the higher head pressures the compressor has to reach to use the 410a.

beenthere

No it won't.

R22 will still be produced.
No new systems will be made that use R22.

All parts for R22 systems will still be available.

flashheatingand

No,in jan 2020, they can't manufacture new jugs. I don't know, the VCR/DVD analogy was a pretty good one. I never intended do discuss the parts. Who knows what will happen in 2020, when it actually comes? So, what is your take on 410 vs r-22? ... If the house was for your best friend's Grandma?

beenthere

I apologize.

For what ever reason, I read your post as 2010, not 2020.
Need to wear my glasses more.

You are correct, no more NEW R22 will be produced in 2020.

But, there will still be recycled R22.

NickTech

A well installed system should last over 15 yrs, so the switch over to R410 is appropriate, however equipment is still available in R22 and probably at a good price, clearing the way for new R410A. However be careful that the split system components match. Older R22 systems may be 10 seer while the newer R22 and R410A ones are at a min. 13 seer. Both Condenser and coil may need to be replaced.

NickTech

the differences between 22 and 410 are only technical (about 40 to 60% higher operating pressures), not in their efficiency(barring that 410a has a greater entropy). efficiency comes from a ratio between energy consumption and BTU/hr. compressor type, condenser fan motor type, even blower motor in the A/H effects the efficiency. it's all about the SEER rating. 14 seer is 14 seer whether it's 22 or 410a. the only rational reason to upgrade from 22 to 410A (keeping the SEER rating the same) is refrigerant cost and availability. It's not what you see today though, it's what 4 - 8 yrs from now have in store.

MechAcc

This brochure from Ruud states R-22 ceases production Jan 1, 2020 http://www.ussupply.com/files/Docume...%20Rev%200.pdf

Also R-410a has a lower critical temperature than R-22, 158 F vs 205 F. Once it hits critical temperature it will be totally vapor.

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beenthere

Virgin R22 production is not stopped in 2010.

You need to read the full phaseout.

Production of new equipment using Virgin R22 will be stopped in 2010.

SelfContract

Green Energy

NickTech

NickTech

i digress

beenthere

Thats the phase out of production of equipment containing Class II.
Not the ban of producing R22.

You might want to read it a couple more times.

beenthere

(b) Production phase-out
(1) Effective January 1, 2015, it shall be unlawful for any person to produce any class II substance in an annual quantity greater than the quantity of such substance produced by such person during the baseline year.
(2) Effective January 1, 2030, it shall be unlawful for any person to produce any class II substance.

January 1, 2010:After 2010, chemical manufacturers may still produce R-22 to service existing equipment, but not for use in new equipment. As a result, heating, ventilation and air-conditioning (HVAC) system manufacturers will only be able to use pre-existing supplies of R-22 to produce new air conditioners and heat pumps. These existing supplies would include R-22 recovered from existing equipment and recycled.



http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/title6/phas...2phaseout.html

flashheatingand

Man, you guys are harping on R-22 stuff like a bunch of hens. Dude was simply asking about r22 versus r410. I doubt he needed the chemical break-down. Or the legal interpertation. So, what would you choose for your, well Grandma is likely not here, so what would you choose for your sister?

beenthere

R22

sandpipertech

R410a. Reason. Supply and demand. R22 is going through the roof even though the production of it isn't going to be stopped for another 11 years! So imagine what it will cost to replace parts or charge your system if it ever leaks after Jan 1 2010. Whatever you decide to go with....replace the entire system.
I will say this about R410a though. The operating pressures are signifigantly higher than that of R22 and for that reason I have seen and suspect so continue to see failure of system components that are subject to refrigerant pressures. This is one of the biggest differences between 22 and 410a. You can get into the science of the two but its useless. They do the same thing...make your house COOL (or hot if its a heat pump). I don't know if there is any real good answer. Just talk for a while with your contractor and perhaps his service manager.