Puron And Coil Replacement On Remodel - Carrior

 
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Old 10-21-2009, 01:22 PM   #1
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Puron And Coil Replacement On Remodel - Carrior


The job is to turn an existing unit 180 and rebuild the closet to face a different direction. The AC repairmen gave me a couple of options. One is to turn the unit, relocate the lines and recharge for about 1K.

The other is to turn the unit, relocate the lines, replace the coil and recharge with Puron for about 3K.

He says that after December 31, any repair will require the coil change as existing freon is discontinued. I thought that was only on new systems? Not repairs?

The unit is about 13 years old and is a 5 ton Carrior. It seems to be working fine. It just needs to be relocated.

Question - should we replace the coil now? Should we recharge with Puron?

Somehow I thought the whole unit needed to be replaced to use Puron but I am not an AC guy.

Mrick
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Old 10-21-2009, 08:48 PM   #2
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Re: Puron And Coil Replacement On Remodel - Carrior


It's not a bad idea to replace it with a r410 setup. Especially if the setup is about 13 years. However, the rule is that after 12/31, it will be unlawful to manufacture r-22 equipment(mainly condensing units and heat pumps). Most coils can be used for r-22 or r410.

I don't know how they are going to manufacture coils specifically for r410 only unless they come supplied with a txv coil to prevent one from using the coil with r-22. Should you replace it now? That's your call. But, it sounds like a scare tactic

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Old 10-22-2009, 07:12 AM   #3
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Re: Puron And Coil Replacement On Remodel - Carrior


You cannot charge Puron into a R22 unit. Period. If this individual is not replacing the outdoor unit with the indoor coil he does not know what he is doing.
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Old 10-22-2009, 02:08 PM   #4
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Re: Puron And Coil Replacement On Remodel - Carrior


The whole unit would have to be upgraded to a 410 system.for this guy to even suggest this is a little odd!!.Chances are he would have recharged w/22 and charged for 410.I'd get another contractor out..good luck
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Old 10-22-2009, 04:08 PM   #5
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Re: Puron And Coil Replacement On Remodel - Carrior


I will watch for additional replies, but thanks to all the replies.

We are just going to turn it at this point.

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Old 10-23-2009, 07:08 AM   #6
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Re: Puron And Coil Replacement On Remodel - Carrior


One can change the indoor coil without changing the outdoor coil.
One can change the outdoor condenser without changing the indoor coil
as long as they are using the same refrigerant , and are manufactured for the same refrigerant being used.
Meaning r-22 indoor coils can only be used with r-22, and not with 410 a.
because they are different in size, and the compressors use different oils for both 410 a-puron Vs. R22 .
and yes, after dec 31. it will not be easy to find any r-22 coils left if any.

But if anyone says that someone doesn't know what they are doing if they change the outdoor unit , and use the same indoor coil , is blowing hot air, like a bad install job gone wrong...
but you cannot use a 410a-puron condenser with an indoor r-22 coil.
even with a txv, the indoor coil is too small for an outdoor 410a unit and would kill the compressor, more than likely.
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Old 10-24-2009, 10:23 AM   #7
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Re: Puron And Coil Replacement On Remodel - Carrior


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hvacpro View Post
One can change the outdoor condenser without changing the indoor coil
as long as they are using the same refrigerant , and are manufactured for the same refrigerant being used.
Meaning r-22 indoor coils can only be used with r-22, and not with 410 a.
because they are different in size, and the compressors use different oils for both 410 a-puron Vs. R22 .
and yes, after dec 31. it will not be easy to find any r-22 coils left if any.

But if anyone says that someone doesn't know what they are doing if they change the outdoor unit , and use the same indoor coil , is blowing hot air, like a bad install job gone wrong...
but you cannot use a 410a-puron condenser with an indoor r-22 coil.
even with a txv, the indoor coil is too small for an outdoor 410a unit and would kill the compressor, more than likely.
Most evaperator coils these days are usable for both R-22 and 410A with a simple txv change so what you are saying isn't exactly true. And yes I am not saying ALL but most.

Also if someone is replacing an outdoor unit and NOT the indoor unit nowadays I would say they dont know what they are doing because the SEER ratings wont match 99% of the time. If the indoor unit is only being replaced leaving the older outdoor unit it is usually not a problem.
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Old 10-24-2009, 10:32 AM   #8
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Re: Puron And Coil Replacement On Remodel - Carrior


Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy-lvhm View Post
Most evaperator coils these days are usable for both R-22 and 410A with a simple txv change so what you are saying isn't exactly true. And yes I am not saying ALL but most.
I would like to see you , go try that... experience will have you rethink before you say the word most, and wind up with wasting time chasing your tail.

Quote:
Also if someone is replacing an outdoor unit and NOT the indoor unit nowadays I would say they don't know what they are doing because the SEER ratings wont match 99% of the time. If the indoor unit is only being replaced leaving the older outdoor unit it is usually not a problem.
what gives the seer ? the txv, or the size of the coils?
what would happen if you had a fixed capillary as most r-22 units have?
you're going to tell everyone they don't know what they are doing because you are under an assumption they will mismatch the coil?
would you wear two left shoes?

Last edited by Hvacpro; 10-24-2009 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 10-24-2009, 10:43 AM   #9
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Re: Puron And Coil Replacement On Remodel - Carrior


Quote:
Originally Posted by mrick View Post
The job is to turn an existing unit 180 and rebuild the closet to face a different direction. The AC repairmen gave me a couple of options. One is to turn the unit, relocate the lines and recharge for about 1K.

The other is to turn the unit, relocate the lines, replace the coil and recharge with Puron for about 3K.

He says that after December 31, any repair will require the coil change as existing freon is discontinued. I thought that was only on new systems? Not repairs?

The unit is about 13 years old and is a 5 ton Carrior. It seems to be working fine. It just needs to be relocated.

Question - should we replace the coil now? Should we recharge with Puron?

Somehow I thought the whole unit needed to be replaced to use Puron but I am not an AC guy.

Mrick
Get another A/C guy.

If the unit is an R22 system and he wants to convert it to R410a, there is more to it than changing the coil and recharging the system with R410a.

R22 equipment will no longer be manufactured and will be phased out, but R22 will still be available.
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Old 10-25-2009, 08:41 AM   #10
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Re: Puron And Coil Replacement On Remodel - Carrior


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hvacpro View Post
I would like to see you , go try that... experience will have you rethink before you say the word most, and wind up with wasting time chasing your tail.

what gives the seer ? the txv, or the size of the coils?
what would happen if you had a fixed capillary as most r-22 units have?
you're going to tell everyone they don't know what they are doing because you are under an assumption they will mismatch the coil?
would you wear two left shoes?
ICP's entire evap coil line is exactly the same size with 410 and 22. Only difference is which txv is installed. I don't know where you have been but this has been going on for years.

What gives you SEER?? TXV, COIL SIZE, FAN MOTOR, FAN BLADE.....

Just because you run a crappy forum site doesn't mean you actually know what your talking about. If you want to challenge me lets take it to hvac-talk where more people with experience can chime in. You go and try and change a condenser on a ten year old heat pump and leave the indoor coil the same. TXV or NOT. I will watch and laugh as every winter the thing trips out on high pressure. Only problem is most people don't notice because the electric heat still runs and keeps them warm.

You're out of your mind.
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Old 10-26-2009, 10:56 PM   #11
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Re: Puron And Coil Replacement On Remodel - Carrior


Quote:
Originally Posted by bwalley View Post
Get another A/C guy.

If the unit is an R22 system and he wants to convert it to R410a, there is more to it than changing the coil and recharging the system with R410a.

R22 equipment will no longer be manufactured and will be phased out, but R22 will still be available.
You can still buy R22 parts like an a-coil. You just can buy condensing units that are precharged with R22 after Jan 1.
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Old 10-27-2009, 12:34 AM   #12
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Re: Puron And Coil Replacement On Remodel - Carrior


Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy-lvhm View Post
ICP's entire evap coil line is exactly the same size with 410 and 22. Only difference is which txv is installed. I don't know where you have been but this has been going on for years.

What gives you SEER?? TXV, COIL SIZE, FAN MOTOR, FAN BLADE.....

Just because you run a crappy forum site doesn't mean you actually know what your talking about. If you want to challenge me lets take it to hvac-talk where more people with experience can chime in. You go and try and change a condenser on a ten year old heat pump and leave the indoor coil the same. TXV or NOT. I will watch and laugh as every winter the thing trips out on high pressure. Only problem is most people don't notice because the electric heat still runs and keeps them warm.

You're out of your mind.
who said anything about ICP?
who said anything about most?
keep trying
you mean hack-talk ... you should go on a show like jerry springer, same type of audience....


Just because you cannot size correctly a condenser doesn't mean your inner circle of friends wont lie for you , or your supply house will warranty a compressor for a job you did wrong.

guys like you could make more money by learning how to be more technical and less dangerous with a wee bit of knowledge, only to to sell complete systems for lack of knowing what they are talking about or doing in the field.
I could make more money selling the customers the cheaper option they choose themselves because they will buy a new system when the indoor unit fails.

you sure leave a ton of money on the table out there.
u sure run a crappy code of ethics and a business out there!
Im in the business to help ppl , and when you lose sight of that, you lose customers and gain a reputation for being a scum bag jeremy , if thats ur real name.

To Hardsell a complete system and tell customers a half truth because of not knowing how to size and match a condenser with a pre-existing indoor unit is common among hacks...
I seen your other thread here that was closed jeremy, we are not your enemies . you should enroll in how to complain and whine better so you dont sound like a victim, next time pay your bill and stop whining. time is money.
you're the customer that stands over ones shoulder and tries to help , only to complain later...that's hilarious for a contractor.
Now, i know why those extra hours to listen to your stories and nurture you and do things your way were billed in, absolutely comical.

Last edited by Hvacpro; 10-27-2009 at 12:59 AM.
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Old 10-27-2009, 07:21 AM   #13
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Re: Puron And Coil Replacement On Remodel - Carrior


Quote:
Originally Posted by gamebird View Post
You can still buy R22 parts like an a-coil. You just can buy condensing units that are precharged with R22 after Jan 1.
You can still buy any R22 equipment that is available after January 1, 2010, if you can find them, they just cannot make any new R22 systems after January 1.
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Old 10-27-2009, 07:22 AM   #14
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Re: Puron And Coil Replacement On Remodel - Carrior


Forget about the coils.The original post stated the a/c guy was going to change the coil,leave existing condensor ,then jack it up w/410..existing condensor being a r-22 unit..NO GOOD
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Old 10-27-2009, 08:10 AM   #15
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Re: Puron And Coil Replacement On Remodel - Carrior


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hvacpro View Post
who said anything about ICP?
who said anything about most?
keep trying
you mean hack-talk ... you should go on a show like jerry springer, same type of audience....


Just because you cannot size correctly a condenser doesn't mean your inner circle of friends wont lie for you , or your supply house will warranty a compressor for a job you did wrong.

guys like you could make more money by learning how to be more technical and less dangerous with a wee bit of knowledge, only to to sell complete systems for lack of knowing what they are talking about or doing in the field.
I could make more money selling the customers the cheaper option they choose themselves because they will buy a new system when the indoor unit fails.

you sure leave a ton of money on the table out there.
u sure run a crappy code of ethics and a business out there!
Im in the business to help ppl , and when you lose sight of that, you lose customers and gain a reputation for being a scum bag jeremy , if thats ur real name.

To Hardsell a complete system and tell customers a half truth because of not knowing how to size and match a condenser with a pre-existing indoor unit is common among hacks...
I seen your other thread here that was closed jeremy, we are not your enemies . you should enroll in how to complain and whine better so you dont sound like a victim, next time pay your bill and stop whining. time is money.
you're the customer that stands over ones shoulder and tries to help , only to complain later...that's hilarious for a contractor.
Now, i know why those extra hours to listen to your stories and nurture you and do things your way were billed in, absolutely comical.

Well sure hvac-talk is full of some goofs. But it's also filled with some intelligent people and at least some of them know how to actually come up with facts vs. the absolute bullsh you spew. So let me guess. You're answer is to under size condensers half a ton (or more) on replacements leaving the indoor coil?? That might work in a drier climate like yours a little easier than in the humid as piss climates the rest of the country has.

I think the definition of hack is the minority of people that come up with off the wall crap like you do to make the majority look like they are liars. Why dont you go tend to your own poor ass pathetic forum site and leave the real ones alone?


Oh yes and ICP is indicative of the whole UTI line which is the resi largest hvac line in the country.

Tell me what you do when you have warranty issues with your mismatched equipment?? LIE to get things replaced under warranty? OH yeah I am sure you tell the truth to the manufacturer and they cover it no problem. When you can back up what you say with the facts that make it "acceptable" PM me and we'll talk. Unless you want to continue to make yourself look like a jackwad in the open forum.

Anything can be done and be made to work. It doesn't mean its acceptable. We sell a customer a "system". That system has different components and they all age at the same rate and have the same amount of run time on them, through the coils, etc. Do you really think your doing your customers a favor by keeping their old inefficient air handler when they could be upgraded to something more efficient and comfortable with a much faster payback?

Let me guess. You sell Goodman too.

Your a big fish in a small pond. Or at least you think you are.
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Old 10-28-2009, 04:35 AM   #16
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Re: Puron And Coil Replacement On Remodel - Carrior


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Originally Posted by hf05 View Post
Forget about the coils.The original post stated the a/c guy was going to change the coil,leave existing condensor ,then jack it up w/410..existing condensor being a r-22 unit..NO GOOD
Thats what it sounds like.

Get another estimate or 2.
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Old 10-28-2009, 09:46 PM   #17
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Re: Puron And Coil Replacement On Remodel - Carrior


I was under the assumption, that the bid included a new condensing unit as well. $2,000 for a new coil and refrigerant only (forget about the installing r41 into a 22 unit)? There is no need to get crazy about how much Joe or George would or should charge, but, based on the numbers posted, it had to include a new unit as well.

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