Price To Fill R-22 Freon

RobNeg

flasheatingand you must run a small shop with not much overhead. I would like to see how you come up with $250 profit for a $290 charge.

jeremy-lvhm

ROFL If he is calling a goodman supplier for a good hvac person he is calling the wrong supplier. How about looking for a descent supplier first.

He got a deal for the service and charging $100 a pound may not be too far off for a first pound addition under a flat rate system. I personally dont charge that much but the bill would have been similar. That being said I hipe he checked everything else before jazzing it up with 22.

jeremy-lvhm

First of all if the system is repaired and running right this shouldnt be an everyday occurance and the price should matter very little. I think the companies that are charging such low prices for refrigerant probalby put so much up into the sjy with repeat business that they dont care about the low markup. The guys here are right. You can be too low and end up out of business one day. I think I charge about $30 a pound and thats low as hell in our area. Markup is higher on most consumer goods that people buy everyday so you really cant preach about ripping people off.

BACKWOODS

I am just glad the temps are falling and now we can move on to how much someone was charged to replace the pilot ignitor in their furnace

flashheatingand

Yes, I do run a small shop, and from what I see, that is the direction that residential hvac is going. So, those big outfits should be aware that the days of charging $80.00/lb for r-22 are numbered. Perhaps, I was a little off basedwith the $250 profit thing, as I am well aware of the many expenses. However, based on a job that cost $40.00 in materials and, say, $40.00 for gas and labor, ($210 left over) I doubt the other expenses come even close to eating up the gross. Especially since refrigerant leaks are a common problem with "no cool" calls.

flashheatingand

ROFL? For starters, if you are going to use the word decent, at least learn how to spell the word.

The reason I suggested a Goodman Supply house is because many of the up-start one man shops start out with Goodman. Yes, there are things to criticize about the furnace as there are aspects about all the other companies as well. It's awfully presumptuous to assume all Goodman suppliers are lousy, as I could tell a few stories about the quality of our Tempstar supplier. Nevertheless, it would be ludicrous to talk smack about all the suppliers of brand x as I only know about my local suppliers.

In internet vernacular, may I suggest that you STFU?

beenthere

40 bucks for labor?
Including drive time. About 2 hours on that call. While, 20 bucks an hour.

flashheatingand

The original post indicated about one hour. I did not to intend that the example included a full out leak check, or a situation in which it was hard to find a leak. I think the pay scale out east is a lot higher than out here. Here, if one is making $20/hr, they are doing alright. We all need to make a living, nobody denies that. You must pay off your expenses before making a profit...obviously.

My original point was that if your expenses are so high that you have to charge $80.00/lb for something that cost X/lb in order to make a profit, something is amiss. If that is what it takes for the big guys to make it work, they are going to get knocked down like Golieth.

beenthere

That was one hour on the job site.
No mention of driving time.

There will always be big guys charging prices you can't comprehend why.
They will not go under because of it.
More Franchise companies crop up every year. And while a very small number won't make it.
The vast majority of them will. And will be charging those kind of prices.

If you are happy with low profit, so be it.
There many that want to retire, without living on a fixed income. And don't want to live a reduced life style. So they charge a price that will afford them to maintain their life style when they retire, or sell out their company.

jeremy-lvhm

Usually I don't agree with Beenthere but this time he is spot on. Flash you think that cutting down my spelling makes you smarter or something and thats fine. I always was a bad speller and I am the first to admit it. And when I forget to use spell check it shows.

Now lets get to you.

I am also a one/two man show. I never CONSIDERED selling Goodman. WHY? Because there are at least a half a dozen other brands out there that a one man shop can sell and still have a better product IMHO. Goodman was a company started with one thing in mind, make AC affordable for everyone. That equated to a cheap unit. AND till this day they still are IMO. I wasn't honestly cutting down the suppliers as I was just thinking about the contractors they might "suggest" Anyway I will move on from the brand bashing.

Beenthere has a very good point. And as a small company myself it is hard to not get caught up in the trap of charging less. Like it or not if you charge enough to just make a good buck and not enough to cover the losses of a business it will not last. It's not the same as working for someone else when you get a steady paycheck all the time, don't have to purchase/replace EVERY tool in your truck (and the truck!), have the ability to collect unemployment during the slow times, and the list just goes on. If you aren't charging enough to make yourself a future at it then it isn't even worth starting up the work truck.

Yes I do agree that smaller companies are going to be more relevant in the immediate future. But you will never hear of a smaller company buying out a larger company. It always seems to be the other way around....hmm I wonder why? Being small and charging low rates to get that customer base is great until you realize your not making enough money anymore. Then the big guys swoop in, offer you a wad of cash to buy your customers and its all over.

Hopefully you don't become a flash in the pan....

flashheatingand

I hope not to be a flash in the pan either. My goal is to build the business enough so that I can make money by selling it. That is when to cash in. I am not looking to be Low Buck Chuck, but to impress every customer so that they can spread the word. If you charge what you think you are worth, that is cool and all, but they probably will not call back if they did not like the price. To me, the key is growth, and you risk the growth thing if you charge too much today.

As for pricing, obviously, you need to factor in all your expenses otherwise, it's very difficult to make it. That is something that is indisputable. The art of it all is finding the right number.

Quick thing about Goodman, if their stuff was junk, they wouldn't offer a ten year warranty. I have had few problems with them, and most of my service calls are actually on Carrier, BDP. Granted, for the most part, when comparing apples to apples they are all about the same. Personally, I like the Trane, American Standard the best, but stay loyal to our Goodman supplier.

As for the spelling thing...perhaps I was a little tempormental. Have a good week

beenthere

Flashheatingand.

Something for you to ponder.

How many customers. And or how many employees must your company have to be worth enough that when you sell it. It get enough to retire on.

That is a discussion for another thread. But, think about it.

jeremy-lvhm

Well perhaps when you run into warranty issues with goodman and don't get paid you'll see more of the light.

As far as growing your business to sell that to me seems to defeat the point. If your business was profitable enough as it grew you would never want to sell it because it would support you unit retirement. But yes if you want to build a customer base quickly in hopes of a big payoff then lowballing is the way to go. Never mind that your customers will probably get sent to a larger company one day that ends up jacking their prices up rather quickly to meet their overhead.

No disrespect meant but you should look into taking some business courses.

I do highly doubt however that you will be very marketable as a one man show even if you build a "decent" customer base. And I think at your current low ball attitude you wont be able to grow past one or two trucks. You'll find that the more customers you get will not simply equate to making more money if your on your own because you will end up needing to hire people to help you. Thats where you're overhead will grow. Anyway as Beenthere has said that is for another thread. We are starting to hijack this one.

Affordable7

To Jeremy and all of the other Goodman bashers...give me a "good brand" and I'll quote you the timeline of serviceable items...ie..Carrier/Bryant in their 8th to 10th year...the combustible venter motor, the board, gas valve (all at a premium replacement price) besides the usual ignitor and maybe blower motor. BTW..Goodman has a program called Goodcare which does pay for items replaced under warranty if the customer belongs to the program...or if you're out there replacing blower motors for free in their 4th year b/c it's under warranty...then who's the fool?

Affordable7

BTW..can't wait to see all the low ballers out there and the discusser's of thievery mortgage their houses when they have to purchase and switch over to the equipment required to install the 410A equipment coming January 1st...or go out of business. Profits are needed for more than just the immediate.

jeremy-lvhm

I was NOT saying Goodman is the only brand with problems by far. I know they have all had their runs. Goodman has marketed themselves as cheap and always been easier and more available to the hacks so YES they do end up with a worse wrap in my book. And I know of personal stories of GOOD contractors installing their units and not getting paid warranty money that was due to him. And I do believe it was through goodcare too.

I will admit that I recently saw an Amana condenser that did look nice. I haven't heard it run and still think they are not that easy to access but it does at least LOOK a little better even though it practically the same.

Anyway there will always be goodman bashers. I am by far not the only one.

gamebird

Dupont makes a regfrigerant that is a direct dropin for R-22.

bwalley

Why not just use R22?

gamebird

For after jan 1 when R-22 will be harder to come by and more expensive. Also then you will not have to switch to 410 like affordable 7 said.

bwalley

They will no longer manufacture equipment that will use R22 manufactured after Jan 1, R22 will still be manufactured and available.

How long has R12 been out of production?

I can still buy R12 and it isn't cheap but it is still affordable.