Oil Burner Problems

junior437t

I have a Heil oil furnace. It is about 5 years old. There is 24 inches of pipe between the furnace and the chimney. The pipe rises about 4 inches in this 2 feet. The furnace started smoking around the "inspection port". When the furnace fires, you can see flame around this port. There is not excessive smoke or soot around this port. It almost acts like the chimney or the pipe is stopped up. I used a shop cac and cleaned up all the soot i could access. I removed the plate where the "pipe" goes out to the chimney and cleaned that area. Inside there was probably 1/4 inch of soot.

mdshunk

Um... yeah... when's the last time you had your oil burner serviced? That is a MUST to have done on an annual basis. You're on the virge of having a "puff-back", which will coat everything in your home with a greasy layer of soot. Have your furnace serviced - NOW! It needs an ANNUAL tune up, which will include nozzle replacement, filter replacement, electrode cleaning and gapping, furnace brushing/cleaning, and air shutter setting for maximum fuel efficiency. There is absolutely no way of getting around annual PM on an oil burning furnace. This is normally between a 69 and 99 dollar service from your oil company or HVAC man. What you're describing is due to a lack of PM only.

junior437t

I guess i am confused. I have never heard of anyone needing to get a oil burner serviced. The company that installed the furnace claims that if you use clean fuel, "you dont need to have them come back". It would be very expensive to get them to come and do it as they are 50 miles away, 1 hour each way travel and at least an hour at furnace. It just seems a shame to have to call them towork on furnace. It will cost at least $150 for them to show up. I guess I will just have to tear into it deeper tomorrow, don't have the money to have them come out. I have no option but work on it myself. If it id have a "puff back", the insurance company would pay to repair furnace and take care of any damages to house. It is just frustrating to run into something I can not fix. I repair gas furnaces where I work, hot tubs, have had to rebuild truck engines and transmissions. I guess I just don't want to give up



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mdshunk

See there, that's how I know you're pulling our collective legs now. No HVAC or oil company in their right mind would say such a thing. You pulled that out of thin air, I know. This is also where I bail out, as I know you don't want to listen to reason. Best of luck to you.

junior437t

I don't know why you would say that I pulled this out of thin air. The only reason a HVAC company was involved with the installation was to have warranty. I called a service man that I was able to locate and he told me he had never heard of "annual service" on a furnace that used clean oil. He said they did not offer anything like that. I guess things are done differently here in West Virginia than they are anyplace else. In this area, you do not hire any work done, you do it yourself. I was trying to learn about something I was having problems with. This would be the only the second time in 45 years that I have had to hire someone else to do any work. I am not trying to be a pain but I just needed help and hoped someone here could offer advice. The service person I was able to get in contact with told me to check the flame retention ring and call him back at home. He told me their service rates were $75 per hour. I appreciate the suggestions though.

mdshunk

The person you report you talked to is wacky, and I have no trouble saying that in full confidence. Here is an annual maintenance guide from one manufacturer:http://www.energykinetics.com/pdf/TuneUpOilStandard.pdf
Here is a document from the State of Mass talking about annual maintenance: http://www.mass.gov/doer/pub_info/oil-m.pdf
Here is a document from the oil heat institute of Long Island talking about the importance of annual maintenance: http://www.ohili.org/fullService.html
Here's a news article talking about how avoiding annual PM is being penny wise and poud foolish: http://www.newsday.com/features/home...5896912.column


I can assure you that you are very alone in your stance that oil burners need no regular maintenance. You say "he" mentioned checking the flame retention ring, which is what I also suggested in the other thread you started. I say that this person you supposedly talked to is ficticious. Feel free to PM me with his phone number if you're wrong. I'll call him myself and tell him what an incompetant goofball he is.

junior437t

I am not trying to be a part of a pissing match. All I can work with is what my experience has been all my life. Oil heat is the most common heat in this area and I have never known anyone that had annual service. It is fine and dandy that some people suggest annual maintenance. If you had experienced 10 or 15 or 20 years of no problems with your "program", would you change it? I can only take suggestions from people that I can get in touch with. If I call the closest HVAC person I can find, I can only trust him. He has more experience than me. As I say, I am only trying to learn. In my work, I am required to be a Journeyman Electrician. When I run into a problem I dont understand, I contact more experienced electricians.

tgeb

Who you should be contacting is the company that supplies you with heating oil.
My oil supplier takes care of the annual maintenance on our boiler.

Most HVAC guys around here will not work on an oil fired units.

You need a pro to do the service, yes you can take it it apart and clean it and get it back together I am sure.

But to adjust the air fuel mixture and check for CO2, (which can kill you and your family),you need specialised gauges that you will not find in your tool box.

I doubt your insurance company will not pay for a puff back if the required maintenance is not performed.

Call the oil company.

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Tom

www.gebcon.com

Speer007

First off you want CO2, about 10 % for good combustion. What you dont want is CO, which is carbon monoxide. CO2 is carbon dioxide. Now as far as oil burner maintenance goes, i'm here to tell you if you have a oil burner, then you have the least maintenance free furnace out of all types of heat. The oil burner has so many things that have to be fine tuned in order for good combustion. Smoking can be caused by numerous things, but the most common is the nozzle, poor fuel supply pressure ( you want 100 psi to the nozzle), Improper Draft, and misadjusted combustion air shutter. Also sometimes if you have smoke coming out of door on a furnace not boiler, it could indicate a cracked heat exchanger. But if i were you i would change the nozzle to the exact same one you have on it already, you will see a number like 1.0 or something meaning 1 gallon per hour of fuel. I would also clean flue pipe throughly + clean heat exchanger on oil side with nitrogen and vacuum. I hope this helps some.

junior437t

I cleaned the furnace today and got maybe a hadfull of soot from around the firebox. I repalced the pipe to chimney. The oil suppliers around here only deliver oil. They will not touch a furnace. I checked the flame retention ring and it was in place. The hole into the firebox was nearly blocked. The hole was only about the size of a quarter. It was blocked with soot. I called the closest repair company and they have me on the scehdule for the week after Thanksgiving. They are closed nest week. It will cost at least $225, 2 hours travel and minimum one hour here at $75. Furnace seems to be doing ok now, no smoke around inspection port. Thanks

skymaster

I have oil fired heat and you DARN SHURE BETTER do annual maintenance. In addition to Speer on changing that nozzle also ,change the inline fliter element and while u r at it change the screen in the pump! AND all that should be done EVERY YEAR at the start of the heating season. Sounds like you enjoy playing Russian Roulette with a fully loaded Uzi. Trust me on this, been there,done that, got the damn damage and the T shirt to prove it
JackM

tgeb

I stand corrected. Thanks.

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Tom

www.gebcon.com

junior437t

No, it is not that I enjoy playing Russian Roulette. Until I asked my question on here, I had never heard of anyone having any annual maintenance done. I was able to find a service guy to come and look at furnace yesterday. He said he would not change a nozzle in the furnace unless it was acting up. He told me that he did have some customers that have him come out each fall and oil the blower motor and check the pump pressure. He said that if tank and lines are installed properly (supply line at least 6 inches off bottom of tank and return line only 12 to 15 inches from top) that you do not need a filter on the supply line. That is the way mine are installed. He did suggest that i get my tank buried that is now sitting on top of ground. He said some of the insurance companies are cancelling policies here in WV it the tanks are not buried.

junior437t

I did not tell what service man did to furnace yesterday. He adjusted the "air mixture" and the spark gap. He said it was not getting enough air and that the gap was too close. It seems to be doing ok now and no smoking.

tgeb

Well then.

If you want to spend a few thousand on a tank that is suitable to be buried go ahead. I would check with the insurance co. first. There is much more liability involved with a buried tank than there is with an above ground tank.

I have my fuel fired boiler serviced every year. and I have stood by and watched as the thing is cleaned and adjusted.

You absolutely should have a filter and you should have a new nozzle every year.

Did you're service guy use any type of gauges or testing devices?

Just how far up in them hills of "West by God" are ye?

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Tom

www.gebcon.com

junior437t

We are in central WV, about an hour north of Beckley. The tank was part of the furnace deal. Underground tanks cost $1.00 per gallon of capacity for underground. He did not use any instruments setting the furnace up. I know that from what I have read, he should have. I needed to get someone to work on the furnace sooner rather than later. The best "promise" I had been able to get was to be "put on the list" for the week after Thanksgiving. I wil just have to keep an eye on it and yes I do have a carbon monoxide detector.

tgeb

I would not have waited till after Thanksgiving either.

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Tom

www.gebcon.com

RenaissanceR

[deleted]

coolmen

You been misinformed by some company who probally does not want to travel to you for this service. ALL oil furnaces need yearly maintance. If you have a new oil tank, new lines, new furnace and have mild winters then you may be ok for 2 years only. I can tell you that not haveing a fuel filter installed is gonna ring up more service calls down the road. The fuel filter protects the fuel lines ,pump,nozzel from getting the moisture and or anything else that will float around in the tank. This is not stuff we just make up and throw out at you.This is standard in the oil furnace industry.
good luck and stay warm

BigMikeB

The whole thing kind of sounds dislexic, insurance companies cancel policies on underground tanks because they don't want to pay out on leakers. Every oil burner needs a filter, any one who says no is dead wrong. 99% of burner techs install a new nozzle any time they work on a unit just to avoid a call back. Yearly maintenance is a must.