New Central Air Unit for Ranch House - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Robie · 02-26-2006, 11:53 AM

It's time I was thinking about having a new unit installed. The present one is 28 years old and has had some minor work done to it in the past few years...nothing severe, but I have visions of it going out in mid July when it's 100*
The air handler is in the basement, where my wood shop is. The catch pan has overflowed a few times due to built-up gunk from the dust, I guess. That probably needs to be replaced also as I'm tired of minor flooding.
As I can't read the plate on the unit, I can't tell you how large the present unit is.
Is bigger better in these cases? Just wondering if it's worth the extra money to go larger so the unit doesn't work as hard. Not sure if that even is appropriate here. The ranch house is 2100 square feet.
Anyway, what size unit should I be pricing? Any thoughts on how much a new unit and air handler should run in the Delaware area? Labor rates seem to hover at $60 + -.
Thanks for any imput you can give.
Rob

mgmmike · 02-26-2006, 09:41 PM

I just had a 2 ton unit installed for about $3,900 including air handler. That is with the so called old refrigerant. At the beginning of this year the government is requiring units to operate at a ceir of 13 which requires new refrigerant. I priced the newer more efficient units at $5,600.

HVAC Doc · 02-27-2006, 10:30 PM

Bigger is not better in the case of HVAC. Shorter run times on a/c mean less dehumidification. In heating, it means hot/cold/hot/cold instead of a more consistent heat as the unit keeps shutting off and coming back on (short cycling). As for 13 SEER requiring the newer R-410a, that is not the case. You can achieve 13+ SEER depending on the equipment with R-22. Prices vary all over the country as well as within a city. Shop around for a contractor that will do a heat load calculation (Manual J) and back his install with a solid contract and references. Cheaper isn't alsways better and the most expensive doesn't always guarantee the best install either so if you shop by price alone, you already will have one strike against you.

service fitter · 03-01-2006, 06:42 AM

most manufacturers are not going to make r22 a/cs starting this year so you may not have a choice if you wait to long , although the last 5 years I was at my old company all we put in was puron , I think they cool better, then r22 units ,it wasnt uncommon for a 22 to 25 degree temp drop vs the 20 degree drop with r22

HVAC Doc · 03-01-2006, 10:27 PM

Service Fitter, are you sure you aren't confusing the DOE mandate on 13 SEER minimum with the R22 phase out? I have received no indications from either Lennox or Carrier that they plan to totally drop R-22 units till closer to the EPA scheduled date in 2010. Personally, my preference is for 410a units just because it requires more attention to installation(that should of been being paid equally to R-22 systems but were more forgiving). They are also much easier to get higher SEER ratings out of as well in a larger range of tonnages than 22. But, if the customer wants R22, thats the system I will put in. Besides, since the current total ban on production doesn't take effect till 2030, most systems will be ready for replacement (or have been replaced) by then. All they have to worry about is if R22 will take the massive hikes R12 took or grow moderately. Its a 50/50 guess either direction.

service fitter · 03-03-2006, 03:03 PM

I know most the comecial techs I see at the union hall ,are all worried about working with 410 .my company is trying to get everybody certified ,because they were told rooftop units will be 410 this year, because the manufacures want to make it easier by haveing one refrigerant, Im not sure if its written in stone ,but that seems to be the talk at the supplyhouses in Chicago

service fitter · 03-05-2006, 09:49 AM

was talking to my buddy ralfy , hes a chiller tech for carrier , the word around there is since they have to retool for 13 seer , they may go to puron now instead of having to retool twice

HVAC Doc · 03-05-2006, 09:14 PM

I sent off an e-mail to both Lennox and Carrier (no response as of yet). Transe says it will start scaling back production in Jan. 0f 2009. No clue on the commercial/industrial side as we normally do not install package units bigger than 10 tons or work on chillers.

service fitter · 03-07-2006, 09:17 PM

talked to a york rep today, said they wuold produce r22 units till they were no longer profitable , which he said was by there best estimate would be around 2009 maybe sooner , so I guess all the talk was just that

Bestheating · 03-25-2006, 10:01 PM

I just want to reinforce what HVAC DOC is telling you. Don't oversize. R-22 is alive and well, at this point and less expensive. R-410A units are pricier and are promising, but undeniably more expensive. If you run it a lot, you might give it some serious thought. Either way, look at the quality of the installer and the unit, not the bottom line. in five years, you will have forgotten the price, but try living with a poor installation for 20 years.