Heatway Radiant

TimNJ

Has anybody here used any of the "old" Heatway tubing for radiant systems?
I put this stuff in my house when I built it back in '94. There was just a large class action settlement with Goodyear over hose failure. I was wondering if anybody has seen any of these failures?

plumguy

I've used it in the past for fishing a line from a existing home (zone) to an addition, 3' to 4' sections at the most. I know guys who have used miles of it, but I havent heard any thing bad about it!

Bjd

Are you talking about the red heatwy or the black onex type?

BJD

TimNJ

Yeah, red or mine was more orange color though.

HVAC Doc

Here is an old press release article I found when we had installed a few radiant systems in the early 90's. It was designed to help us (the contractors) deal with questions about Heatways products:

Heatway's Entran II, which was manufactured by Goodyear from 1989 to 1994, has had numerous failures in the field. The hose made from nitrile rubber, in some cases, turned deep brownish red and became brittle and easily broken within two years of operation. Heatway indicates that currently only a small portion (far less than 10%) of the Entran II installed has experienced this problem.

Heatway also states that any contractor who has been on a job site and witnessed a single piece of Entran II hard at the manifold, soft five feet in, and then hard again, knows that the pipe is the issue, not the quality of water, system operation or installation techniques. Heatway readily acknowledges that the tube itself is defective. We are also quick to point out that only the Entran II is in question, as it is our only product made from nitrile rubber. The original Entran I, Entran III, Entran IIId, and the current Entran Onix are all made from a completely different formulation of high temperature EPDMs that have a proven record. These products are manufactured by Dayton Rubber, not Goodyear.

Heatway originally switched in 1989 to Goodyear from Dayton as a manufacturer of their hose because Goodyear promised an improved product over the Entran I. Heatway even agreed to pay more for the product based on the promised improvements which had to do primarily with the oxygen diffusion issue. Goodyear produced the nitrile rubber hose from a closely guarded formulation which was not even revealed to Heatway personnel.

Heatway is currently in legal negotiations with Goodyear to sort out who is responsible. They feel strongly that Goodyear should stand behind its product and assist them in servicing those customers who have encountered the problem. Goodyear has taken the stance that, "customers should look to Heatway Systems to honor its warranty responsibilities ... and not Goodyear."

Even though the defective tube has shown up in relatively few installations, all Entran II hose is suspect. Only time will tell if all or only a portion of the product will fail. In the meantime, Heatway is attempting to deal with the problem head on. They have established a special web page called Goodyear Made Entran 2 to answer questions, provide information and collect data on all Entran projects.

Heatway has built a reputation on quality customer service and a readiness to stand behind its product. The scope of the problem could be enormous if all Entran II proves to be defective and could stretch Heatway well beyond its capacity to cope. They believe that Goodyear will step up to the plate and assist in the job of making things right with their customers.

Bad news spreads fast and tubing failure is our industry's worst nightmare. This is not just a Heatway problem ... it affects us all. A knee-jerk reaction could severely dampen the positive growth we have seen in recent years. It is imperative that the industry cope with this situation in a constructive manner. The public will tend to lump all radiant floor heating systems into the same category with Entran II. It is our job to make sure that customers understand the difference.

Here is what you should tell customers:

1. The defective hose, Entran II, is the only radiant floor tubing made from nitrile rubber.
2. The vast majority of radiant floor tubing is manufactured from plastic or rubber formulations that have been installed and tested for well over thirty years.
3. Heatway is a responsible company and is making every effort to provide a solution for the affected customers.
4. Those wanting more information on Entran II can visit the special Internet site Heatway has set up at http://www.gme2.com.

Keep in mind that Heatway did not intentionally go to market with defective merchandise. We felt that we were investing their future in a superior product. This is a time when the best and wisest thing our industry can do is to support our injured comrade and help minimize the damage done.

TimNJ

Well so much for that. I am about 90% sure Heatway filed for bankruptcy and was bought out by Watts. The case went to court against Goodyear and they lost a $300 million class action settlement. In the early 90's when I was designing my house Heatway was one of the only companies doing radiant. I used their design which turned out to be S*@t. I ended up ripping out all my piping (not radiant tubing) on my boiler and redesigning the system myself based on a hydronic heating book called "Pumping Away". The entire system works great now. The only problem I was left with was Heatway design had my tubing in slab spaced too far apart so I have to run a higher temp in my radiant than I would prefer (135deg vs 120deg).

mdshunk

Dan Holohan is the absolute best author with respect to hydronic!! I have everything he ever wrote.

plumguy

:Thumbs: :Thumbs: :Thumbs:

Chad

Was it the glycol solution that rotted the piping away or what? I want to say Dow Thermal has some that has inhibitors in it that keeps their solutions from corroding the tubes......which sucks on a closed system because they are so much more expensive.

TimNJ

This was water and glycol that caused the problems. The Heatway tube (Entran) was basically like mini radiator hose. I had somebody come out in Dec. to inspect my tubing to verify that I had Entran. Waiting for a response now. Supposedly 60 days wait, so they have about two more weeks.

GAry Dufour

I have heatway hose in my flooring in my shop and every few years I need to unplug it.
Because of lack of oxygen barrier the water becomes contaminated and blocks part of my hose.
I need to snake them out and flush the swstem and add an inhibutor to the water.
long process and needless
GAry

beenthere

Does your system have an air separator?

TimNJ

Wow, this is an old thread. Mine is still operating...knock on wood.