Goodman 80% Furnace Brand New Won't Start

Hguy

I have a 70,000 BTU 80% Gas furnace that will not ignite. I replaced one furnace with two seperate furnaces .One furnace is working fine for the second floor and the furnace for the first floor will not ignite .The combustion fan comes on, the ignitor lites up, the gas valve opens and does not seem to catch the ignitor before it dims .I have replaced the gas valve,the board,and the ignitor.I have tried working with Goodman Techs although they are really getting on my last nerve.They are the ones that recomended all these things be changed and still the same problem. I had my plumber check to make sure we had the right gas pressures and they were fine, I also had the electrician run a seperate ground to the unit from the panel and still no help. The unit actually was working fine for the first day and then we ran into this problem. The other unit is right on the side of that one and has never had a problem at all.These units are in the basement and there is plenty of combustion air. Please give me some advise on something else i can check or do to fix this problem.

Glasshousebltr

Check the air damper outside, it may be frozen closed.

Just an idea, I had one do that last year.

Bob

__________________
Bob

HVAC Doc

Check your pressure switch/pressure switch tubing. Might be a kink or some debris inside. Check your polarity. Make sure the flue is clear. Make sure the manifold and orfices are clear.

Hguy

I have checked the pressure switch and the flue is clear all the way up the diagnostic test blinks one flash which is a lockout. I don't see how it could be grounded any better than it is we have a ground run seperate from the electrical panel. The furnaces works and runs great when it is running it just won't lite on a consistant basis we have had to lite it with a match and it runs until it cycles off and then lockout again but the key here is the furnace on the side of it runs great with no problems.

Aceinstaller

I would like to clarify a couple of your tests.

You say that you could lit the burners with a match? Then it would run a full cycle?

This shows that everything seems ok up to the point of ignition. Now, you also have explained that the ignitor glows when it is called to.

This isa very strange problem that I have never encountered myself, but I think that you should take a close look at the ignitor's placement on the model that runs fine.(clearence from burners,where it is located in relationship from center of burner tube)

It is possible that the ignitor mount has been installed with a bracket designed for a different unit, or that it has been bent or damaged from the factory in which it is not within the proper clearence to ignite the gas. after a second or two of the flame sensor sensing that there has been no ignition, it does its job by putting the unit into lockout. hence the flashes telling you that the furnace is in lockout mode.

Adjust the ignitor bracket(but don't damage the ignitor they are fragile) to the same clearence as the other units and you should have solved the problem.

also, if you turn the service switch off for a few seconds, then back on the unit will call for heat without having to wait the five minutes for lockout.

Good luck with the repairs, and be safe by turning the service switch off when changing parts.

HVAC Doc

Polarity has nothing to do with your ground. Polarity is making sure your neutral wire is indeed "neutral" and your hot wire is hot. Having your hot tied to the furnace neutral can cause some control boards to act up.

Aceinstaller

yes, you're right doc,

but i don't understand how the furnace would go through all stages of operation, up until the flame sense rod senses no ignition. he said that he could even light the burners manually and the unit would run a full cycle.

The only thing that I can come up with is that the ignitor is located too far from the burner to ignite.

OR, WAIT JUST A MINUTE.... I'M HAVING A THOUGHT......

What if the orifice on the manifold where the ignitor is located is plugged or mismanufactured. Rare, but possible.

Hguy

Very good advice thank you,
I know what polarity is although I thank you for the definition.I have looked at the ignitor on the other unit and it is in the exact place as the unit that does not work. I don't think it's possible to adjust giving the the size of the hole the ignitor is placed in. Unless I make a new hole which I won't do because this is a brand new unit. It really seems to me that the ignitor is not timed to come on at the right time or it is not staying on long enough for the gas valve to open. Like I said this ignitor is new already replaced so I don't think it is a bad ignitor. I have also checked the orifice in front of the ignitor and it is cleared out with no restriction and when the unit runs the flame is very strong.I am a liscensed installer and I have been doing HVAC for a long time and I have never ever encountered a problem like this. You would think if it was a bad unit then I wouldn't be the first here to about it so I am at a loss for words.Thank you very much for your reply's I do appreciate it.

Aceinstaller

When you hold the match to light it, does it light after the ignitor stops glowing? If this is the case, you have a miswiring in the mode of operations. Which means that one or more of the limit wiring connections were miswired from the factory.

Just another thought.never seen it on a furnace, but I have encountered some miswiring on condensing units before.

Take a long look at the wiring diagram for the limits, especially the placement of the ignitor in relationship to the gas valve. if these two are mixed up, the gas valve will run it's purge for ignition either before the ignitor ignites, or after the ignitor is out keeping the flame from bieng lit.

Hope this helps.

Hguy

Thanks I will take a longer look at that I did go through it for a while and it seems that everything was correct but I will definately double check every wire.I should have taken more time when I replaced the board to check every single wire. Although at the time I really thought it had to be the ignitor but I was going by what Goodman techs had to say(which was not helpful).I will let you know how I make out Thanks again for your response!

Marty4164

Go check out hvac-talk.com. There are a couple threads about this problem you're having. I think somebody said there is a new ignitor bracket for that unit. Also the new board is timed a little longer for ignition.

service fitter

have you ohmed out the igniter , if the ohms are to high the igniter may not be getting hot enough to light the gas

Hguy

Well I have never been on this site before I had the problem with the Goodman furnace.I think this site is great and I am glad I am now a part of it.Thank you guys for replying to my problem,I have fixed the problem and I think everyone needs to hear this one.Marty you are correct there is a new board for this unit that is timed differently. I guess the "TECHNICIANS" at Goodman just maybe forgot to mention that there was a problem with a line of furnaces that they sent out to Distributers. I have been in touch with my distributer every day for TWO WEEKS trying to get to the bottom of this problem and that was because the three techs that I talked to from Goodman were useless to me.Finally the distributer called me yesterday to let me know that he had a new board for me that was going to fix my problem. Well that is the first and the last time I will ever use or even speak to Goodman Manufacturing.I am furious that it took this long to come to me with this information, maybe Heat is not important in Texas but with the coldest days of the year coming this weekend for the homeowner and I this is a little to close for comfort. I am going to atleast write to the BBB about this and if it were not a friend of mine that I have known for a while and it was a new costumer I would not think twice about calling my Lawyers to somehow get reimbursed for the time I have wasted on this junk furnace!!

rakes9720

On our new Goodman furnace, the burner was improperly manufactured and the carry-over was squeezed shut, so the burner that touches the flame sensor would not light. --Junk

AZACDOC

After reading the last couple of posts regarding Goodman, I felt compelled to reply.

We are Authorized Factory Service for Goodman and do alot of pickup work behind other 'installers'. We have alot of opportunities to see what happens with our crews and others.

What I find disturbing is everyones eagerness to call Goodman "junk". I've got news for you. The majority of the components used in Goodman equipment is used in other units as well. Would this qualify them as junk also? Does it only require one small problem that the tech can't figure out on his own to qualify an entire brand as junk? I think not.

Here in Arizona, we deal with all brands of equipment. The most problematic?

York, Lennox, Carrier, Trane and their bastard/budget lines.

Why do we recommend Goodman equipment for most applications? Price and the ease with which we are able to obtain our parts and equipment, either warranty or not. For more than 20 years, we've found serious parts deficiencies and attitude from all of those listed above.

The bottom line for us and our customers is to install equipment that they aren't going to have to pay ridiculously high parts prices after the warranty and is simple for most techs to understand. Simplicity is the key for us.

We have 2% warranty on our installations compared to 10% - 12% with practically all other brands.

Using the example of the fella that couldn't get the 80% furnace to fire till he got a new board, I'd have to say that any tech that waits 2 weeks for an answer rather than figuring it out for themselves is lacking in their diagnostic skills. (No insult intended). I saw one guy mentioned he's only going to do "installs" then "he's outta there". I've got news for you. You shouldn't be doing installs unless you're capable of repairing the equipment you're installing. Not having a full grasp of the situation keeps you from understanding a good and bad installation. You don't understand what you're doing.

There is no reason that a volt/ohm meter, etc., couldn't have been used to isolate the problem and determine the cause. As we've installed literally hundreds of the 80% variety, I've never had a problem with one that couldn't be solved then and there.

Thus our comment about simplicity.

Having one problem with any brand and then calling it junk is nothing short of frustration speaking tech/installers part. You're supposed to be the 'expert'. Not being able to solve the problem for 2 weeks is a joke.

If we want to talk about real headaches, how about the same Trane boards buring up the same resistors and zener diodes for years and years while they're charging premium prices and out of stock during peak of the season? How about the problems with Trane and Lennox's various problematic parts such as gas valves, ignitors, etc., that they ultimately had to replace entirely with a different brand? Several times.

Now thats "junk"with a ridiculously high price tag...

I've never known Goodman to employ "tech's" at any level of their organization. Perhaps they were "tech's" prior to their jobs at Goodman but the reasons they are at Goodman now doesn't say much for their technical prowess.

Also, replacing the board/module and valve in a Goodman has never come close to the price you pay to replace the same in any other brand listed above.

Don't be afraid. Learn your trade. Learn to solve problems, regardless what the source. You'll make things easier for yourself and your customers.

Simplicity!

hf05

try looking at burners .if theres glow gas and somewhat delayed ignition, i;d be looking at the burners as someone already pointed out.AS far as polarity goes your not ther yet!after ignition flame rectification would be effected by polarity..always look for the obvious

mgiovanni

Hey Hguy,
Oddly enough, I've encountered this problem several times this year.
Apparently, the hot surface igniter in your 80%er (probably a GMV) is mismatched to the small stainless steel bracket that holds it in place before it is screwed onto the panel. The igniter has a tab running parallel along the side of its ceramic base. If you notice carefully, the stainless "U" bracket that steadies the igniter has a slot in it about 3/4" x 1/16th long that is supposed to match the igniter frame tab. If it does not, match perfectly, the igniter will be crooked and not line up properly with the gas stream. The igniter key should be just to the right of the burner stream as to not block it but just catch it. The computer will sense this and in milliseconds shut the gas valve off. This is a manufacturing mistake that has appeared sporadically throughout the past few years at Goodman. What is easiest to do it fix the problem yourself by gently snipping off a tiny piece of the ceramic tab I mentioned so the base of the igniter fits flat in its holder. Do this by grasping just the very top tip 1/8" of that little tab with a good pair of pliers and pinch it off. Do not break off the whole flange! Do not touch the black part of the igniter with your fingers. I've had to do this for several service calls this year. The exact White Rogers replacement part is either mismatched or made wrong. This also works better than a universal igniter.
You'll notice after doing this, that the igniter will be at 90 degrees to the burner strip when mounted and just to right front of the far rightmost inshot burner.

Hope this helps you. If you choose not to tackle this project yourself, show this reply to your HVAC tech. Sorry I can't make the service call, I'm in Chicago. Remember, a furnace is only as good as its installation. I have three Goodmans plus a geothermal system in my home. They're all 8 years old and have never needed servicing.


M.G.

MALCO.New.York

This thread is two years old. Hguy has not posted in two years!!!! Pays to check out the dates mgiovanni.

Sounds like you might know what you are talking about. Try not to waste it on oldies!

__________________
Something to One may be Nothing to another!

Ultimate Wisdom---------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-cnizLDEE

TNHVAC

Hey AZACDOC I to love goodman, thats why I will not install them. My love for them is the repair , mostly warr. work that comes from the sorry design or whatever it is thats makes them a true PC OF S--T. seems like those that install goodman products around here either cant or want fix them.so I get the call & a paycheck is a paycheck,but I will never take the chance with my name on the install of a Goodman product.I also agree with your statements about Trane.

mgiovanni

Sorry malco,

without my glasses on, the 6 looked like an 8.