Geothermal?

joasis

Ok guys, I would love to hear a real time opinion on whether it is worth considering. When I build our new home, we will be on an electric cooperative, and they will install a geothermal hvac water heating capability...tax credits, half price, etc, etc. My sub that does all our new construction says it is not worth it...but I have read Rye's assesments and they contradict my guy.

I have never built using geothermal, and I have read tech information, plus opinions, pro and con...so I will ask my brothers on the board. I live in Oklahoma...summer heat can excede 110, average 80+, winter temps as low as 0, average 45 or so. Ground temps at 62 degrees, and I can do a loop or a well system.

So opinions please?

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AirPro

Joasis,
By geothermal WATER HEATING CAPABILITY, do you mean a ground source/well source packaged heat pump with a heat recovery unit piped in to the water heater? Or are you talking just a ground loop for heating the home through an air handler/furnace with a water coil?

King of Crown

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Real nice guys

joasis

Heat recovery is what I have been reading about,...will the other one heat as well?

There will come a day when every penny counts on home utilities.

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AirPro

Are you using a heat pump for A/C or straight cool condenser outside? If you are going heat pump, I would just get a stand alone hot water recovery unit piped into the hot gas line from the compressor, that way whether the heat or a/c is running it will heat the water going to you water heater ,hence the WH will have less work to do.

Then again, if this is a new house, it could benefit you by going geothermal with a ground loop and using a dual fuel system (heat pump/gas) depending on your seasons and how long it stays cold. I would never think of going geothermal or dual fuel in Florida,it just doesn't stay cold long enough here. A heat pump with a recovery unit would work very well IMO for most southern states that don't experience a harsh winter.

Geothermal(ground loop) is VERY expensive on the install side ,but very efficient also, so you will make up the money spent in 7-10 years.

Give me a call if you have any questions. 772-408-2143

joasis

The cost here is about $5000 a ton, including the wells (1 per ton), and they haven't quoted me to th loop price...I can't go dual fuel and take the half price/tax credit since it comes from the elec coop. I just recieved a new packet in the mail on another system, so I will be reading up on it further. Thanks.

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atlas06

I have heard of a pilot geothermal project done by HUD (Housing and Urban Development) in N.VA outside Washington DC where utilities are fairly high.
The life cycle cost of that pilot project was found to be 13 years for a pay-back, now since you are in OK, with probably lower utilities than N.VA you may be looking at 15 to 20 years pay back time. Will you live in the house that long to recover your investment?
NIST has a free program for download called BLCC 5.1. Very good at running life cycle costs and pay-backs.
Do you have sample test data from a test bore to evaluate the K factor of your earth? if the k factor is less than 1.1, you are not likely to get efficient heat exchange. Look into a K factor of 1.3 or greater.
Are you considering the horizontal slinky system or the deep bore? the slinky is less efficient.
Geothermal is not for every part of the country, it has to do with the earth heat exchange potential. I know that the state of Missouri school system uses geothermal extensively, you are not too far, you may have good K factor.

joasis

It works well here, and with the federal tax credits, may work out dollar wise. The electric coop will also "finance" the equipment as part of the monthly billing cycle, 0 interest, and if it works out numbers wise, and with their program, I don't think I will be making a mistake.

I have the land to do the loop, or I can do the wells...1 for every ton of cooling. Waiting for the report from the coop...they just got my house plans a few days before Christmas.

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#CARRIERMAN

Hi joasis

Now I am all excited, In all reality and joking aside. There is nothing on Earth at this point in the mechanical heating or cooling that is as efficient. I got the chance to tour the Climatemaster plant in Oklahoma City. Man was I impressed. The most efficient gas furnce at this time is 97%. The most efficient electric air conditioner is about 23 seer. When you get into Geothermal it is rated in EER. This is rated for 12 months, not just three or four. The R410A equipped Geothermals are rated at 30 EER. This basically means that this unit has an efficency rating of about 3000 seer. Mdshunk probably could explain the wattage conversion better than I can. But the basic meaning is, when the gas guzzler 13-23 seer units are running, the geothermals are just sipping. The only thing to watch for is the proper installation of the absorbtion system. The closed loop is probably the most reliable, but the open loop into a lake is the most efficient.

Good luck
Rusty

joasis

I am getting deeper in the research Rusty, and Doug Rye's video claims 2 and 1/2 times greater efficiency then a conventional sysyem....I willbe total electric at my new home, and the rural coop will finance the system at 0% interest for 10 years...free money, plus the energy credit.

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#CARRIERMAN

Hi joasis

I think you will find in the long run, you have made an excellent choice. And if you have any questions, I will be around somewhere.

Rusty

pipewelder1

A friend of mine came up with a great and inexpensive way of transfering geothermal heat. Twining together old cast iron radiators buried in his yard .