EPA Certified

MechAcc

Well if everyone was a contractor, then who would be a doctor, or more importantly a farmer so we can nourish and sustain ourselves. Being a contractor is no more important than your unlisted profession. Charging an amount to cover costs and projected increases in costs is correct and right. The contractor graveyard is littered with the corpses of those that get into the never ending spiral of cutting costs below other contractors. They end up cutting things that the homeowner may be unaware of such as training for their workers to do a proper install, or disconnect switches to service equipment. Instead of using separate drain piping or hoses for furnace condensate, air conditioning and humidifiers they tie everything together into one pipe or hose and many times even reduce the diameter to restrict water flow which may end up causing furnace problems. Or rather than installing a liner for an exposed chimeny they install a furnace without one. Then the furnace rots out in a few years. Shortly they are out of business because they have priced themselves out of the market and their installs look it. Or they don't carry workmen's comp insurance, or they may not be bonded or carry no insurance at all. If someone gets injured who pays then? Will anyone pay? Or they may not pull a permit to do the job if one is required. Am sure that others on this forum can add to the horror stories as well.

The homeowner usually ends up with shoddy installs from lowballers. My recommendation is if you think the price is too high then shop around to find a handyman or contractor that meets your price range.
But you might get just what you pay for.

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MechAcc

Actually a, for your information, vacuum pump is for removing air an noncondensibles from the system after repairs you need a refrigerant recovery machine to remove the refrigerant. Unless you hired one of them lowballers that are venting the refrigerant into the atmosphere. In that case video tape the incident and turn them into the EPA and get them off the street for honest contractors.

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MechAcc

Yes you are quite right that is a replacement job. Now a new install just for heating in the 50's ran close to half the cost of the entire house according to my hvac history teacher. You sure don't even pay half the cost of house to install furnace and even air conditioning with the duct work and even zoned systems for good measure.

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MechAcc

So you are saying that the price should be cut and the secretary fired just to make you happy for a cheaper price??????


Sorry fellow tradesmen about my replies but I have seen some of the worse of installs by both DIYers and Lowballers that have no clue as to proper equipment sizing and installs.

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rjordan392

MechAcc,
I had two estimates so far and one may be a low baller as you say. I don't think I'll be dealing with him as he uses a P.O. box for an address and I could not find any information on him from the BBB.
I am getting the impression that there are contractors here who are what we call "working out of a suitcase". Whereas they rent some of their equipment to perform their work and pass on the full expense to the customer. This may sound right to them but a good mechanic has an investment in his own tools and equipment and only pass's on a percentage of the cost to every customer for the estimated life of the equipment. After all, he gets to depreciate them for tax purposes too. If a contractor gets only two jobs a week, the customer is not responsible for the other two he thinks he should have and have to make up for it by paying extra for a full tank of gas, a weeks worth of phone bills, three days of truck payments, etc, etc, etc, when the job only take 5 to 8 hours for one technician. When I first started out as a sheet metal trainee, I was told by my foreman that I was expected to purchase my own tools. I saw what the mechanics were using and I purchased the same with my $1.35 an hour salary at the rate of one tool a week. "That was my investment" at the beginning of my working life.

mdshunk

You're confusing tools and equipment. Of course, "tools" should be owned by the tradesman or contractor. Equipment is often rented or leased. Look at any large high-rise or large commercial project, and 90% of all the trade equipment on the job is rented or leased. Being an electrical contractor, I find it more useful to rent the $10,000 cam track hydraulic bender setup per the specific job rather than to own it for the 2-3 jobs a year that I'd need to use it.

rjordan392

mdshunk,
This is about residential work not large scale commercial or industrial jobs. I believe that years ago, the HVAC installer used one of those pipe benders to install the refrigerant lines. This type of work does not require high priced equipment. I don't consider a vacumn pump or recovery unit high priced equipment, but one respondee mentioned the cost of renting a recovery unit was part of the cost of the job. I already mentioned that the technician can recover his costs based on the life of the equipment and he could charge each customer a percentage of that cost and still be able to depreciate it for tax purposes. Now this is an investment that will pay off, unlike the sales of equipment where the HVAC company has no investment in.

Bjd

Still no clue?

"The hvac co has no investment in" I forgot that you ordered, checked and delivered your own unit.

If not, then who has the investment until the entire project is complete?

BJD

MechAcc

All service technicians must have certification on the type of equipment that they are servicing and a copy of that certification must be on file with their employer. Check http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/608/608fact.html

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rjordan392

Bjd,
If I were to purchase this otc, then the investment is mine because I am the end user. Also to make something clear, I stated earlier that I was shopping for a new gas furnace. Some took this to mean I wanted to install it myself. I admit that it appears that way, but my intention was just to match quality with pricing so that I could compare it with other brands. The sales clerk at the distributor would not cooperate and give me any type of price. Obviously, if a unit is a few hundred dollars more or less then other brands, then I would want to know why, if all other specifications and perks were the same. The only thing I got to judge for quality is Comsumers Reports recent article on the frequency of repair of the top 12 brands. This report does have some weight, although limited because it did not indicate if the brands were simular, with the same perks which would make a differance because a manufacturer may just be having a problem with one particular model in his line.

NickTech

..............................is he gone?........................