EPA Certified

PipeGuy

I can't believe i've been ignoring this thread thinking it would be boring

PipeGuy

rjordan- your comments buttress my long held opinion that there is no form of gainful employment more effective at breeding uninformed, self-agrandizing, socialist ignoramuses than civil service. While I'll grant you that not all civil servants are over-compensated under-achievers, I think it's fair to say that 70% - 90% of them are. Thank God the military is a shining exception when it comes to getting the job done.

If you were to be as 'honest' a consumer as you desire your contractor to be an honest businessman, you'd afford those contractors who provide you bids a 'full disclosure' of your performance and service requirements, along with your technical requirements, for consideration in preparing a bid. You're certainly more likely to get the finished product you want if you're honest about spelling out what that entails. Of course, if you did that, you'd expose yourself to the possibility of having to pay a fair price for those requirements rather than pay the price for what the contractor otherwise thought was required. It seems to me what you really want is something for nothing.

rjordan392

HVAC Doc,
Dare I suggest that $1800.00 is the list price that is used to scare off
those with limited mechanical and electrical ability. If they insist on purchasing it, then so be it. That's extra for the distributor but all qualified purchasers pay the retail price and are being told their getting it wholesale.

HVAC Doc

Call it list price call it retail price, call it a purple balloon but contractors do not pay 1800.00 for a furnace. And yes, contractors do get their equipment wholesale from the DISTRIBUTOR as the distributor gets their equipment wholesale from the MANUFACTURER. It all goes down hill as I mentioned before distributors pay less than we pay for the equipment. And again as I mentioned before they can get the price breaks for equipment that I cannot due to volume. They get their 2 ton 10 SEER a/c units for about 200.00 a pop. I pay 325.00 a pop. So what? I know a fellow dealer who is larger than me that pays just under 300.00 for his and smaller dealers pay a little more. Please do not even for a moment suggest you know what contractors are or aren't getting from their distributors and that you know "how the system" works. You obviously need to take some economics and small business classes. Prices to contractors alot of times is based on volume volume volume. The more you can move, the better your break. Same goes for supplies such as refrigerant. If I buy it by the jug, I pay X amount. If I buy it by the pallet, I can get an around a $9 per jug discount which adds to my bottom line since my flat rate is set up on regular price parts costs, not sales prices.

Bjd

This guy has to be a divorce lawyer, what I think he is asking is if we pay X ammount for an iteam thats what he wants to pay without any mark up.

Why dont you just do us all a great be favor and buy your own stuff, and then you will not have worry about us screwing you.

I do mark up and will keep on doing it!!

Next time you are at the food mart, ask the guy there what they pay for butter, maybe he will make it down for you.

BJD

rjordan392

<you will not have worry about us screwing you.>
Bjd,
What do you call it when a customer AC system is low on freon and all you do is add more, knowing that you will be back again. Why don't you send someone out with qualifications to remove the remaining freon and find the source of the leak? That's why you own a vacumn pump, is it not?

And I say to all who think I am looking for something for nothing; the next time you see the local fire department rescue a family.....Guess what! No charge!
Would you like to venture a guess what it may cost for 2 ladder trucks, four engines and about 21 men if you had to pay for it. In my city, they already charge for ambulance service (on a separate call) to your insurance company or you if you don't have it.

Well I won't be posting on HVAC anymore, I learned more then I should have. When you get someone pissed off, they usually say too much to the dismay of other contractors and amusement of non contractors.

HVAC Doc

[QUOTE=rjordan392 That's why you own a vacumn pump, is it not?
[/QUOTE]

That statement right there shows your ignorance. No we do not use vacuum pumps to remove refrigerant, we use recovery units. Vacuum pumps are to remove moisture and non-condensibles from a refrigeration system. As for charge and go, 90% of customers balk at paying for the labor to find the leak and/or fix it. Most phone calls that come in are " Hey my a/c isn't cooling, I had freon put in last year. What does it cost to have it topped off again?" You are right about one thing, we did find you very amusing. Thanks for the laugh!!

NickTech

i do believe that the fire department is not free. taxes, my friend taxes pays the FD. i hate to get in a pissing match, but you are questioning the integrity of our work ethic. let me ask you, the times you weren't fighting fires and hanging around the fire house doing nothing...waiting for something to happen....did you stop getting paid. did you get paid per fire, or were you being paid while most of the time doing nothing waiting for something to catch fire? thats your business, and this is ours.

NickTech

what would you think as a tax payer i demanded that all firemen were paid on a fire by fire basis......., what would you say? or that I as a tax payer felt ripped off because my taxes were going to fire men who for the most part do nothing but wait around all day for something....what would you say to that?!

rjordan392

HVAC DOC,
<As for charge and go, 90% of customers balk at paying for the labor to find the leak and/or fix it. >
You just confirmed my belief that 90% of the people have common sense. I just got a bid for a replacement gas furnace and A coil. Its the American Standard Comfort R model Freedom 80 with two stage heater operation and variable speed motor, 60,000 btu imput, for a total price of $3950.00.

The owner has got to be kidding, this is not a new install but a replacement job.
At that cost, he must be making $1500.00 to $2000.00. That's one big hellava pay day for an estimated 5 hours for one technician by himself.

rjordan392

<but you are questioning the integrity of our work ethic.>
Nick Tech, The work ethic has nothing to do with materials cost or labor rates. I'll tell you something. You won,t find anything in my postings knocking down anyone choice of occupation. But when it is mentioned that civil service employee's such as fire fighters are over compensated under achievers, then the line is overstepped. You don't need a skilled occupation before you become one, just the courage to be one.
Pipe Guy and those who agree with him should hang their heads in shame.

If I can't get my job done for $1000.00 over cost, then I"ll forget about the A coil and install the gas furnace myself. I installed my present furnace and can do it again.

HVAC Doc

Actually not. You have no clue as to the costs of running a business and this statement proves it. After getting done paying FICA, Medicare, Fedral, State and unemployment taxes plus the techs hourly pay wage that is a big chunk gone. Next, lets add to it the cost of fuel for the van, taxes, tags and insurance as well. Don't forget utilities and lease/mortgage payment for the shop. Phones are also needed plus pager/Nextel/ Cell phone charges. Hmm and the distributors want paid for the parts/equipment bought to service your unit or install a new one. Not alot left. HVAC companies would love to make a 15% profit margin. I made at the end of the year 6.33% profit margin. So out of that BIG $2000 you think the owner is just walking away with, I would of made $126.00 out of that after paying all expenses to be in business. My tech would be making an approx. $100 to $125 dollars for those 5 hrs. Who do you think gets the better end of the deal?? Get a fricking clue you idiot!!! You have ZERO idea of how a business operates or the cost to exist. I am now done with this thread as you have shown your stupidity well enough.

NickTech

yeahhhhhhhhhhh

bergenbldr

As the son of a firefighter 25years fdny, and in- law of two current nyc firefighters i have an interesting perspective on this. i find if quite amazing that a proffessinal firefighter is advocating the right of untrained novices to install or service fuel gas burning appliance,cosidering the consequences of an improper installation, co poisioning,fire,and explosion.arent you supposed to be the life safty expert.in our area only lic plumber can pull a permit for gas piping or installation,this not due to building dept but gas company regulation.

rjordan392

HVAC DOC,
So out of $2000.00, you and the technician make $251.00 and expenses takes the rest. Tell that to the gullible. Do the math over and this time don't count what you pay weekly, monthly or quarterly for expenses. Take a percentage of the gross profit for just the expenses for this job only. At the way you explained your expenses, nobody in their right mind would work for themselves.

HVAC Doc

Again, you still have no clue. Since HVAC can be very weather dependant, you would be commiting business suicide waiting to take out expenses in a quarterly fashion. You have to take it out to cover per job because in those times when there is hardly any work due to warm weather in winter or a cool summer, the bills STILL have to be paid. Service techs and installers still have to be paid, insurance still has to be paid, lights still have to be kept on. Please continue to display your ignorance of running a business, you are quite a laughing stock!!

mdshunk

Well, part right here. I sometimes wonder why I work for myself too.

rjordan392

Bergenbldr,
Take time to read all my posts. Nowhere will you find that I advocate that unqualified others install or service gas appliances. I am retired now but thirty years ago, I installed a gas furnace in my home with no problems. Back then, things were much simpler. Furnaces came ready to run and all that was needed was to hook up the piping and electricity. Today may be a differant story. I worked in sheetmetal for a few years and learned to build machinary from blueprints before I became a firefighter. I taught myself through watching others and reading books on installing electric circuits with the proper size wire. So I considered myself qualified to do the work back then. I used a heating and air conditioning book to determine the heat and cooling load on my residence. It is probally outdated and no use to me now, I figure. The furnace has not given me any problems since its installation. But it is old now and will need replacement soon. Even though I feel confident, I can still install the new furnace, I will say that I do not know electronics and any instructions to adjust the furnace through them is just enough to deter me from doing it all myself. So I will try to find professional help at a reasonable cost. Again, you must read the whole thread, especially where one of the members here called 90% of civil servants overcompensated under achievers and other remarks that were made about firefighters. No where will you see any thing I said that downgrades anybody's occupation. I am questioning their pricing policies only.

PipeGuy

I smell POND water

bergenbldr

rjordan392,your original post stated that the hvac wholesaler refused to sell you a hot air gas furnace with out a epa card. the wholesaler has no idea if you or any other homeowner has the knowledge or experience to install install it correctly.this mainly a liability insurance issue. you may be perfectly able to install it correcty but the wholesaler has no way of knowing that.hell,i may be perfectly able the remove someones appenidix after reading a medical textbook,doesn't mean i shoud.as for deriding one's proffesian,you seem the take the famaliar all contractors are crooks making too make money position.you seem to have a big problem with a contractor making a profit on his bussiness.a profit is necessary to stay in businness, the size of that profit is determined by two factors one being the market the other how well he runs his bussiness i.e. charging a proper markup.