Why Does Worker's Comp Pay For Idiocy?

mikezap

That's some damn good advice.

riley40

Yes, that is good advice.

Thanks Mike, for the perspective.

A new wrinkle: our company policy is if you want to file WC, you take a drug/alcohol test at the time of the accident.

This person knows this and has enforced this policy on more than one occasion with other workers.

Yet.... he didn't take one himself. That coupled with the fact that he was all alone when the accident happened - meaning no one saw him on site that morning - is making me really wonder.

But no matter what happens here, you're right about thinking about the big picture. I will do what my legal responsibility is - after legal counsel - and move on.

But thanks for listening and taking the time to offer advice - I appreciate all of it.

Patrick

Im surprised people actually work for you. Why dont you just drug test everyone period, so that you know you have a drug free workplace? Drug test at the time of the accident??? So If one of your framers falls off some staging and breaks his back, your going to make him submit to a piss test before he can go to the hospital? How much is your comp rate REALLY going to go up? I have NEVER had to file a claim, yet we still pay at the highest rate, for roofing and siding.

If one of your guys got a flat tire on one of the trucks, would you make him pay for it cause he probably saw the nail in the road and didn't avoid it.

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Originally Posted by Celtic
Like I said...I'm sure you are very good at what you do ~ whatever that is and where ever it happens.

riley40

Around here it is very common to be drug tested at the time of an accident. And I have guys working for us who are familiar with that procedure who have worked elsewhere as well.

Drug testing at the time of employment is fine but people can plan ahead for that. Testing at the time of an accident gives you a snapshot of that person's state at the time of the accident.

Doesn't everyone test at the time of an accident? Around here, ER nurses will ask you if you got hurt for work and then say "so you need a drug/alcohol test..." and go get the doctor to order one. The ER runs the test. Your comment about me making him submit to a test before he goes to the hospital makes no sense since THAT'S where he gets tested - at the time of treatment.

If one of my guys got a flat tire on one of the trucks it would fall under him doing this as part of his work assignment. Let's not forget we're talking about Spiderman here ... who went pretty far off the reservation with the wall climbing stunt.

genecarp

SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING THEY SHOULD DO EVERYWHERE. THEY DONT DO IT HERE IN NY, I HAVE HAD 2 COMP CLAIMS OVER THE LAST 25 YEARS. AND 1 LIABILITY CLAIM.

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davy crockett

Around here they grill you good at the E.R. to find out where it hapeened because folks get intimidated into believing they shouldn't file a W.C. claim, which is why it exists.I think the guy should be commended for trying to get back to work. Stupidity is not illegal,,if it were we prolly wouldn't be posting as I don't think you can do the forum deal in jail..oh well at least he's at a low rate(I think office work is .038 per 1 dollar as opposed to a tree climber at .25 per dollar) file it and train the guy better.P.S. locking yourself out is embarrassing enough, so don't make your folks scared to talk to you. If you have a good repoir with folks it's amazing the stuff they're not afraid to ask help for.

Brock

Oh yeah it is common in this country. You get hurt at work your pissing at the hospital, ER, or doctors office. That's been the deal for atleast 15-20 years now. You dirty you screwed.

riley40

As a follow-up.... I talked to my lawyer.

He's been a WC lawyer for years (around 25) both as a plaintiff's lawyer and a defense lawyer in Cook County, where we are located.

His exact words: No piss test, No claim. Tell him he's SOL.

Mike Finley

How exactly does that work?

Is this drug test a requirement in your WC policy?

If so how is it to be enforced? Do hospitals ask the person to submit and he refused? Are you supposed to enforce it through education of your employees through an employee manual?

I'm real curious of the details of your lawyer's statement. You can understand how this seems like there needs to be some clarification. If your WC company requires a drug test with every claim, what is the language they use to deny a claim based on no drug test? Who's responsible for the drug test? An employee is cuts his finger off and while he is at the hospital says "Oh yeah, make sure you give me a drug test while I am here."

SelfContract

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riley40

Mike,

Based on what the lawyer said, it's SOP for hospital staff to administer a drug test to people coming in hurt from work. If the test comes back dirty, or if there is no test, that gives the insurance co an "out" to not pay the claim. If the employee chooses to fight this in court, precedence and case law show that they've been regularly unsuccessful. Also, the wording of WC coverage in Illinois is: "In most instances, the law covers injuries that are caused, in whole or in part, by the employee’s work." That's straight out of the WC handbook.

Since his injury was not a result of his work and there is no piss test, he has a very weak case.

Now, I need to clarify with my lawyer if I still have to go through the motions and file this claim and then let the insurance deny it, but the bottom line is that the insurance will most likely deny it and not pay out.



His advice to me

Mike Finley

I still don't get it. If he went to the hospital and it's SOP as you say for them to do a drug test, why didn't they do a drug test? Did he refuse it?

riley40

He says that he couldn't produce urine so they couldn't take a piss test.

I don't know the details - I wasn't there.

In fact, no one was there when it happened - I think he called his wife to drive him to the hospital.

But the lack of drug test results is relevant according to the lawyer.

Again - I'm not a lawyer, I'm just relaying what I was told.

Also, I think there's a misconception about how liberal WC coverage is. A common perception is that "anything" occurring at work is covered by WC. But based on the WC handbook, that's not exactly true... sounds like anything resulting from the employee's work is covered - which is a very different thing.

thesidingpro

All I have to say Is I'm a believer in Karma.

If I was going to fight one of my employee's over an WC claim I sure wouldn't be talking about on some public internet forum.

You kinda remind me of my old boss. One of the guys walked off the roof and fell 11ft and broke his wrist. He tried to keep working but after a couple hours he realized it was broken.

He went to the doctor the next day on his own time and they x-rayed it saying it was broken. He called the boss and boss tried getting him to put it on his parent homeowner's insurance.

Suck it up and move on. You sound like a horrible person to work for. Forget about your discount. Do what's right and move on.

You tell your WC all the facts you know and let them decide to fight it or not. Karma's a bitch.

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riley40

I'm not trying to screw him over, but I'm not going to take the fall for something that's not my legal responsibility, either. And everything I've written on this forum, I have discussed with this person face-to-face.

In fact, I showed him in the WC manual he brought to me where it describes what exactly is covered and what is not.

I agree Karma is a bitch... hitting your boss with a false WC claim may come back to haunt you.

davy crockett

Duh!!I didn't get the refusal part,,my bad,,what a goof,,,maybe he left a little doobie on his desk and then locked himself out. I can see why he was not waiting around,I should read more thoroughly.ADHD is a real problem that I ,,,,,,,,,OOOH! look a chicken.

genecarp

i have some exp with claims, as the employer. the last was a nail in the hand, my lead guy shot himself with a 10 common right through 3 knuckles. he needed surgery , overnight stay, 4 weeks out. how much did it cost me in the end? i dont know, i dont really want to know. how did i feel about it? part of me has a hard time paying for someone elses stupidity. however thats the way it is, he works for me, he makes me $. i pay up and move on..

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The_Game

I agree with you Genecarp, a lot of bla bla for nothing, he got hurt working for you, doesn't matter how. people get hurt serving coffee.
My wc is .50 on a dollar i bury one of my guys 3 weeks ago,
we did a page for him . r.i.p.Dylan was is birthday 2 days ago
memorendum page http://www.myspace.com/skillztreeman
our company:http://www.ftellc.com

Mike Finley

Okay, now it's clearer what you were trying to say.

I don't know what to tell you, I think there are a lot of very relevant posts here.

I returned to a job site this week, the homeowner meets me at the door that morning before anybody else had arrived for the day. She said "Boy, that guy of yours sure worked hard yesterday, he was here until 8:00 last night."

First thought was WTF? What is this guy doing? Eleven and 1/2 hour day is overtime and we don't do overtime. WTF?

My guy shows up and I ask him how yesterday went, I heard you had a long one?

Turns out the plumbers fell way behind or down on the job, how ever you want to look at it. My guy knew we were going to have our inspection today according to the schedule, the July 4th weekend is dictating our schedule in order for subs that follow to get on the job. Turns out he stayed til 8:00 that night to help out and make sure that the plumbers stayed and got done.

(Turns out I had the inspection scheduled for the afternoon and there was time for the plumbers to finish this morning and still meet the schedule-- but my guy didn't know that)

So what do I do, he burns into unscheduled overtime, against compay policy. But his intentions were 100% honorable, the guy as far as I'm concerned has buy in into his job, made a judgement call with good intentions. Do I rat whip the guy for it? Hell no, he gets a pat on the back and a speach about how much I appreciate what he did and I buy him lunch.

Riley, you sure seem to have your guy pegged as a bad apple.

Sometimes the intentions out weigh the final results.

Winchester

he's only been there 3 months you say?

A lot of places that is still considered probationary period. Maybe he really needs a job and really likes working for you. So as not to seem like an idiot and incompetent he decided to tough it out and make it in without having to call you and say that he is unable to do his job because he is locked out.

It's just too bad that he got hurt, if he is a good employee hold on to him. At least he's not a slacker. A lot of guys would gladly sit around and smoke until the boss comes back.

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Ryan