The Union Antics

grizl

Does that mean i would collect stickers on my hard hat and refer to non union tradesmen as 'scabs' and 'rats'?
Seriously though, this may become the only option. Nothin' like forced unionism by exterior forces to really make you feel warm and fuzzy. If it was the employees choice, that would be different.
Looking at these guys scornful looks and dealing with there dirty policies and behaviors in dealing with non-union companies,.. It's the opposite of how I want to behave. Unions have voluntarily declared themselves enemies of larger non-union companies. I could not willingly be a part of that system. Fast-forward a couple years and I might be forced to picket another honest company. Damned if could do that.
I don't know All the ramifications of becoming union. Perhaps we loose our edge, perhaps we lose the personality that makes our company work so well. Again forced unionism is a little hard to accept, it's all how you look at it.

nap

dang, I had a long reply all typed out and I'm trying this Google Chrome browser and somehow closed it.

one point I was making was concerning:
bop over to the electrician forum and contact brian john. http://www.electriciantalk.com

he is a union guy and he has great pride in his company and speaks to this very point often. Being union does not mean you are simply one in the flock of sheep. Your company is still your company to run as you see fit (as long as "seeing fit" fits within the contractual rules you would be obligated to as a signatory of the union/contractor contract

If you want to become a non-union basher, that is up to you. Personally, I do not bash non-union guys. I have known great non-union electricians as well as lousy ones just as I have seen the same in the union ranks. If you want to be a quality builder, then that is what you will be. If you want to throw together crap, then that, too, is up to you.

Being union is not going to change the grizl inside.

Before seriously considering this action, you have a great deal of investigation to do. You need to talk with the union leaders in your area. While you are there, express your refusal to act like an animal and use bully tactics to attempt to sway somebody to become union. I can see it has left a bad taste in your mouth, just as it does in most. I have always found such tactics to be a poor move. Think of this; you want the guy you are harassing to become union. Once you do become union, those very same guys could be your employees. (think of the possibilities. that alone should cause you to sign up)

That is one reason my IBEW local does not utilize such tactics. We want workers the opportunity to improve themselves. You don;t do that by proving yourself an ass and then asking them to become your brother in labor. You show them the benefits of becoming union how it can improve their life.

One thing I can attest to; union workers that have gone through an apprenticeship are most often better trained as a complete journeyman in whatever field they have trained in. The union apprenticeships are generally some of the best training available and result in the best trained men. When people ask us how we can compete when our wage/bene package is higher than a non-union shop. Think about that for a minute; How can a contractor that willingly pay more for his labor than a competing non-union contractor does ever find work? There is only one way; efficiency. If we really cost the contractor more money, he would not be able to compete. He would be forced to go non-union or close the doors. If he pays his men more, he expects more and I am proud to say, in most cases, he gets it.

Being a skilled tradesman does not mean I am an ignorant grunt that simply follows the direction of some leader that holds all the knowledge on the job. I am a skilled, trained, intelligent tradesman that knows how to do my job and why I do my job the way I am. I must make myself efficient so I can be paid what I do. I have the knowledge to make decisions because I have the training, and the resulting knowledge to do so. I must make the entire job more efficient so my employer can make money. I am not going to make any money from a contractor that does not make any money. I'll find myself unemployed either due to my inability to produce or my contractors inability to be able to pay me.

I will not accept that which I can change and I am the difference that allows my employer to profit, even with paying the wage/bene package I enjoy.

nailman

Worked on a school few years back as a non union foreman. Guys from the union protested everyday for about two weeks, one day I was trying to get in the gate and the union guys would not let me in becuase they saw the small union sticker on the back of my hardhat, I ended up in handcuffs but when the dust settled I was let go and 2 union guys went to jail.

I liked working in the union but when you are # 178 on the list and have a family to feed do not try and stop me from trying to feed my family. Here in Ca. anybody can buy there card and be a "Journyman" even if they have very little skills. Most can not use a speed square let alone cut and stack a roof.

nap

thanks for supporting my support of union apprenticeships.

btw; wearing a union sticker and working non-union is about as wrong as you can get. You were either trying to start trouble or being deceptive is no problem to you. I don;t want either one working with me.

I would think you broke any contract you had with your union by working non-union and wearing a union logo. It may even be illegal to do such. I would have to do some research.

If you are going to be union, then be union. If you aren't, then don't pretend to be. It is disgraceful.

nailman

I broke contact with the union to feed my family! And yes I had a union logo on my hard hat along with about 20 other logo's. Thats not a reason to stop someone from trying to feed there family is it? By the way I would love to still be in the union but when we had a big building boom the union membership grew out of control now there is 1 job for every 3 members. Do the math, unemployment or a new job. I don't wear my hard hat anymore but if I ever do, I'll peel the sticker off just for you.

22rifle

Funny how upset a union member can get over failure to follow policies and rules that many of us find immoral and unethical to begin with.

nap

and what rules and policies are you speaking of? morality and ethics have nothing to do with being union or not.

22rifle

Let's start with a contract that states a union member cannot work for a non-union company.

And with any laws stating the same.

Unethical. Immoral. Legal.-

Celtic

Were they ever given the choice?

As the owner [ part owner, project manager, etc] of the company, you won't be walking any lines.
If your guys are working - they won't be walking either.


Who says you have to hire any more hands?
You keep the same core bunch of guys you always had.
If you need a dozen bodies to make something happen - get them from the hall, when the task is done "return to sender".
The special personality of your company will still be yours.

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nap

sure you can. just not while you are a member of the union. You do not have to be a union member but as a union member, you agree to the rules. Everything in life is like that.
Dang guy, your employer can fire you for wearing a green shirt if he wants to and you get upset because a voluntary organization that you would choose to become a member of requires you to abide by the rules in place. I just don't get it.


Huh? There are right to work states and (I am sure what you would call) forced union states. Those are laws. The union does not make the laws.

grizl

Absolutely! For years the union has been trying to get our company to turn over. They could never get there 50+1. Now there trying for a top down approach.

The second paragraph answers my most important question.

Celtic

When I asked were the men ever given a choice, i mean did they actually get a voice in the decision? Like a vote?
Was that the '50+1" what they [the local] was looking to get?



I understand and respect that attitude.

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22rifle

And you are the kind of man who allows rude thugs to determine how you run your business.

If you are OK with that then go for it. Just don't kid yourself into thinking otherwise.

grizl

yeah the union can force voting in a company and if they get fifty percent plus one, the company is obligated to turn over. That is my understanding.

nap

I don't think celtic was thinking percentage when you said 50+1. More of a body count thought, I think.

Celtic

Nope...was thinking percentages....if Griz has 38 men, getting a 51 is going to be pretty hard...20 might happen.

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Rick Rowlands

Union workers must be overpaid if they have time to sit outside a jobsite every day. Around here us non union guys have to actually WORK every day and we don't have time to goof off.

Celtic

Maybe if you made a decent wage you wouldn't have to work everyday and would have some time to goof off...

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rjconstructs

I met a union carpenter one time, he told me they don't use nail guns on their jobs. I said, "Why is it a safety issue?" He said, "No it takes a job away from someone". Apparently a hammer and nail is union approved and gives a sense of job security.
I don't know if all union jobs are this way but I was stunned to hear him say that.

JustaFramer

Yeah that is BS.

The contractor supplies the power tools and the union supplies the labor. Now once the contractor hires from the local union it is the contractors job to have the management team run like a machine. I know many guys that started out for large GC's as apprentices and ended up in management years later. I would say that at least 90% if not more of the residential hi-rises in Seattle and Bellevue where built by unionized General Contractors and Subs in the last 5 years.

The non-union companies did not have the skilled manpower to take on all that work.