Underage Workers

mdshunk

A minor can still help frame a house, as long as he's not the cut man.

OCRS

It's obviously different these days. But you're own kid or from a friend, we all do it. It's not like exploitation, it's the opposite. Value of a hard days work kinda thing.

nap

here is a more direct copy of the fed rules:

nap

he can nail

mdshunk

A 2x4 is not heavy.

nap

you seem to be savvy enough and experienced enough to have dealt with the administrative duties in a company. If so, you should understand that interpretation of the laws is not a definate and clear cut situtation. The powers that be often have different interpretations from year to year or simply different than what a layman would expect them to be.

An example of interpretations of the law;

in Indiana, which I posted most of the germane points of the labor laws, does not allow a minor to operate a power saw, correct? IOSHA has made a ruling that not only can they not operate a power saw, they cannot be in the same area as a power saw when it is operating. This is in response to an Amish group arguing that;

1; their minors should be allowed to use the equipment due to the fact they are trained on them.

2. when that failed, they agreed to not allow the minors to operate the tools but felt that hodding wood or cleaning up and such is still alllowed and acted as such. IOSHA came back and said that as long as those saws are running, minors were not allowed in the same work area.

So, plain and simple, whatever the rules say and how we interpret them is irrelevent (this did go beyond a simple IOSHA said ruling). They are often enforced in ways that do not even appear to be possible when simply reading them. Ultimately, most of the child labor laws are prefaced with verbiage that states that these rules are enacted to maintain a safe and healthy work environment for our children. That statement allows them to interpret those rules in a variety of ways but ultimately, if an action or area of work is deemed to be unhealthy for a minor, that one section alone can be utilized to prevent most any action the government desires.


The laws are simply a bunch of words. We have spent over 200 years asking the SCOTUS to interpret laws that were written over 200 years ago. We continue to make laws and ask about them as well.

In law, there is always the arguement: is the letter of the law most important or the spirit of the law. Here, the letter of the law seems to allow an action. The spirit of the law doesn;t. Which wins? How much money do you have?


How a law is interpreted and applied can be very different than what that bunch of words appear to infer.

pscinteriors

Ive been working construction since i was 14 working as a Gopher on a roofing crew...was only summer job at first...Full time construction by 16...Thats how I have 17 years construction experiance at 31 yrs old(sometimes people ask)

trinitybrown

You should not employ underage workers as it is against law and cause harm to your business in future

woodchuck2

Hmmm, an old post . What the hell, i have hired under age kids for laborer's including my son and step-son. I find that if they are someone elses kid they will hustle and sometimes listen, but your own kids might better stay home. For me i let them run rakes, shovels, paint brush/roller, some ladders, pressure washer, lawn mowers, weed eaters, tampers, some drills,etc. No saws, no auto's, no air nailers, no equipment. It all depends on whether they have any common sense or not, start them out with small tasks/tools and let them work their way up to the bigger task/tool. As far as anything electrical they do nothing unless it involves a shovel and with me watching over their shoulder. I tend to work alone when wiring so it is my eyes and hands on the job. But for other jobs where i need a grunt then i hire a kid.

thesidingpro

When I was 15 1/2 I started co-oping through the vocational school.

I framed and the first day the boss had me laying black felt on a 12 pitch.


I'd say it's a good idea to keep them on the ground and away from power tools.

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forsmant

I started siding houses when I was 15. Wasn't allowed to cut only hammer my thumbs.

wazez

If I'm 16 I may drive a 4 thousand pound hunk of metal down the highway and put dozens of other people in danger but no power tools as I might hurt myself? You can thank our wonderful goverment for !
Oh yeah I was finishing joints for dad before I went to school.

TBFGhost

....whoops, looks like I broke every rule in there....I worked for an excavating company at 14....I did everything from the three point stance, driving mason dumps around the job site, loading trucks with loaders and back-hoes, I brush hogged, chainsaws and logging...jack hammering in 100 degree summer heat all day...up in the bucket of a machine limbing trees, digging graves did lots of mixing by hand and machine....climbed down into septic tanks...worked around power lines,

almost got my head taken off once by a tracked hoe rotating to dump a load while digging a septic bed....I was running to get the laser from the truck...it was raining...i went to stop...I slid instead...the operator was already swinging...3 foot bucket stopped about one foot from my head......the list goes on....I am still here and alive....

Electric_Light

Federal OSHA specifically prohibits operation of forklifts by anyone under 18, with the exception in the agriculture industry.
http://www.osha.gov/dts/shib/shib093003.html

In general, NIOSH considers them high risk.
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/youth/
If they get hurt, so does your company's wallet.

Oops... old old thread. was searching and came across

Tom Struble

most high schools have work/study programs,they can tell you what they can or cannot do

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Tom

strathd

I rarely hire guys under 21 when I'm framing. Most don't seem to have enough common sense to work safely.

KellyD&B

I started working in construction when I was 16. I just needed a job and a friends dad offered me some work as his helper. I loved it. I had no idea I wanted to do this as a career. I would take on a teenager as a helper if it came up and I saw that he was interested in learning a trade. I was always thankful to my friends Dad and now 12 years later I still work with him now and then. I dont think I would hire a teenager as a carpenter though. They just dont have the experience.

MZ-HANDYMAN

KIDS ON CONSTRUCTION SITES = HELL NO!!!!

I was P.M. on a 2500 sq ft garage conversion and the electrician had a 16 yr old H.S. kid on a work program as his helper. (Anyone who uses a framing nailer will relate) There was a stray nail that bounced along the floor near the kid (Who was sitting on top of an 8' tall ladder) nail came from about 50 feet away and he went crying to the electrician saying that the guys were shooting nails at him. I knew nothing about it other than my Electricians had left about 45 minutes after arriving and it looked like they did all the work I wanted. Setting boxes without running wires.

I was getting tore a new B-hole by the boss the following Monday and had to stop him to ask what the heck he was talking about. Said the kid was making a big stink about it at work and at school. I told the boss I didn't want HILL ELECTRIC on any more of my projects! After that incident, none of the other PM's wanted them either.

A stray nail to a framing carpenter is like a plumber seeing a drip or an electrician seeing a spark.

NO KIDS ON THE JOB NO WAY NO HOW!!!

FYI: I started remodelling at 17 and by 19 was managing men twice my age.
PM=Project Manager
MZ-HANDYMAN

Warren

I have never hired anyone under age 18. I have however hired many who were 18 to 21. You generally have to take it slow and get a feel for what they can do and when. Lots of cleanup, hanger nailing,lumber toting,etc. I started working as an apprentice at 18 myself so I think it depends on the individual. Of course I also had 2 years in High school vocational program (whatever thats worth) and would frequently run a framing crew when I was 20 years old. Of course we were building some real basic condos then which didn't require a whole lot of skill.

jproffer

Jumping in kind of late here and the is sort of a rhetorical question...not aimed at anyone, really, but....


Define "same work area"

A 10ft radius around the saw? 20 ft? Anywhere on the construction lot? Same block? Same town? ok the last one is kind of silly, but you get what I'm saying.

Yes the people who make the laws are normally the farthest thing from common sense, but I think (even at the extreme) if the underage worker is outside the "sawdust spray" area, it'd be fine.

Of course that's JMO

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Jim P.