Chris Johnson

That's because in Canada the union is not as powerful or as demanding as the U.S. In Canada most union and non-union companies work in harmony together, side by side.

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Chris

grizl

that sounds nice

nap

Uh, ya, sure. 3 sledgehammers to kill a radio as well as the threat of 5 mason to come out and whip some ass.

nap

but what have they actually done to you? The mason is the one that has threatened bodily harm.


and where is the extra overhead merely because of being union?

Sure. Ignore them. They have the legal right to be on public property.

There ya go.

success to them is your comnpany becoming union. If you don;t want to , then don't.

Not the industry, the country. It is much bigger than "the industry". Just look what the illegal workers are doing to everybody.

You must be thinned skin or something. I work in noisy environments all the time. I ignore the noise.

When they do something illegal, call the cops. Until then, ignore them. And yes, following you can be seen as illegal, depending on the totality of the situation.


Here's where I say: whatever dude!

artificially inflate the industry? what the hell is that supposed to mean. The market drives the pricing, not the union. If the union shops are overpriced, they will fail. Apparently enough companies are utilizing their services. When jobs are bid, you are more than welcome to run over there and bid on the jobs as well. If you are low bid, you get the job.

Pretty simple.
No, that is not how we compete. We bid on jobs just like you do. If the union shop got the job, there is a reason. We picket to inform the public that the jobs we are picketing are employing non-union companies. We work very hard to let the public know in other ways that many non-union contractors pay sub-standard wages and limited, it any, benefits. We are very active in the political circles.

Dirty competition? How is that? You are free to do anything they do. Actually, how do you even see the picketing as competition at all?

actually, no, they do not want to stamp you out. They want to unionize you.

MALCO.New.York

It is called a "Terroristic Threat" and "Simple Assault". Could even be "Aggravated Assault" because of the Sledge Hammers. Since there were 3, a Fooked-up Cop would charge him with 3 counts!!!!


"In the United States, assault may refer only to the threat of violence caused by an immediate show of force." (sledgehammers)


Four elements were required at common law:

1:The apparent, present ability to carry out;
2:An unlawful attempt;
3:To commit a violent injury;
4:Upon another.



Terroristic Threat:


A terroristic threat is a crime generally involving a threat to commit violence communicated with the intent to terrorize another, to cause evacuation of a building, or to cause serious public inconvenience, in reckless disregard of the risk of causing such terror or inconvenience. It may mean an offense against property or involving danger to another person that may include but is not limited to recklessly endangering another person, harassment, stalking, ethnic intimidation, and criminal mischief.
The following is an example of a Texas statute dealing with terroristic threats:

TERRORISTIC THREAT

(a) A person commits an offense if he threatens to commit any offense involving violence to any person or property with intent to:
cause a reaction of any type to his threat[s] by an official or volunteer agency organized to deal with emergencies;
place any person in fear of imminent serious bodily injury;
prevent or interrupt the occupation or use of a building; room; place of assembly; place to which the public has access; place of employment or occupation; aircraft, automobile, or other form of conveyance; or other public place;
cause impairment or interruption of public communications, public transportation, public water, gas, or power supply or other public service;
place the public or a substantial group of the public in fear of serious bodily injury; or
influence the conduct or activities of a branch or agency of the federal government, the state, or a political subdivision of the state.

But.............Who gives a Rats arse!? Intimidate away!!!

__________________
Something to One may be Nothing to another!

Ultimate Wisdom---------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k1Ug...ture=rec-HM-r2

grizl

Wow ********************** That much is certain. Yet, I can tell from your superior logic that you are a man who really know what he's talking about. So I concede completely. Thank-you for taking the time to quote every statement I made and refuting each and every one. I bet you could argue all day. You should be proud, really proud.

9 times out of 10 I think getting yelled at by pathetic unemployed losers is comical, yesterday it got a little under my skin. Thank-you for being there to jump on me.




(Guys. This isn't Union Versus Non-Union. It is about ones safety concerns.)
Ed

nap

Wisconsin is not a right to work state.

nap

I quoted each section so as to be able to address each section seperately. So how am I ******** for telling you to call the cops if these guys do something illegal but until they do, they are within their legal rights to picket. Do you have a problem with law abiding citizens? It seems those on your job are the ones considering illegal actions.

I see you have failed to support your position as well. If you really believe what you are saying, then provide at least some reasonable explanation (such as the overhead comment). You toss out claims and statements with no explanation let alone supporting information.



and who says these guys are unemployed. In my local, many of the guys that picket are fully employed. They take off time to picket because we believe in our cause; every man is entitled to a decent wage, decent and safe working conditions, written work rules so everybody knows the rules to the game, and a reasonable level of benefits.

I'm still trying to figure out why you are so adverse to becoming a union contractor. You claim your pay and bene's compare with union scale so why make so much grief for yourself?

MALCO.New.York

Would you Guys just shut the Fook up. This petty quarreling is silly. BE MEN! If not? Go Home.


Have your opinions..........But if someone disagrees, that is their right and allow them to have it.

__________________
Something to One may be Nothing to another!

Ultimate Wisdom---------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k1Ug...ture=rec-HM-r2

woodchuck2

Unions are one of the reason why our economy is in such a hole. Why would we expect an employer to pay a huge benifit package on top of a good salary if he can import his product from overseas for alot less money due to the fact that the overseas labor force works for less money and little or no beneifits. IMO unions push greed, in turn they push business overseas and in the end the union is without a job. If the union guys are standing out picketing maybe they should think about how the scab is working and paying their bills and how they are not. Alot of local guys found out the hard way here about 5-6yrs ago. They went on strike at the local paper mill for over a year. They did intentional damage at the mill, slashed tires on the scabs cars, followed them home and threatened them. In the end over half the strikers lost their jobs, the others that were allowed to come back did so with pay cuts and some even lost their seniority. The scabs were given a good benifit package and good wages for a job that they normally wouldnt have gotten unless someone retired or quit. Some of the union workers who lost their jobs also lost their cars, their homes and were forced to take lesser paying jobs to survive. Do you think the union reps cared? They still got payed as well as the union attorneys. So who really loses?

K2

There lies the problem. Why deal with our own labor issues at home when you can buy the same products made by 9 year old girls in foreign countries cheaper?.. Just like why would you pay 400 k for a home built buy U.S. labor when you you can buy the same home built by border crossers for 300k?... At least the union hasn't giving up on U.S. labor yet.

In the days when men were men the govt and their cronies would send in machine guns to break organized labor. Now they just hand you the knife and let you cut your own throat..

neolitic

Boys and girls? Can we say "Walmart"?

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Put your location in your profile!
(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)

Celtic

grizl,
I'm curious....did you even speak to any of the reps at the picket line or reps at the union hall?

By reps, I do not mean the rank and file guys I mean the actual union reps ~ Business Agents.

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Cdat

Could I suggest a underhanded swing with the claw to embed in the crotch with a good hard swift jerk up?! You'll remove the 1st threat entirely and I can promise you that the rest will hesitate long enough to take another one or two out...

grizl

As I said before my father is the owner, so any real negotiating had to be done by him. He of course has met with head guys before. He has nothing good to say. I get the impression they want him to join up or move out of the way. I don't really see either of those happening anytime soon.

oldrivers

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I believe once you sign a contract with the union you always have to be union. say you start on big million dollar commercial jobs such as wallmarts, sky scrappers, apartments etc , your able to pay your guys salaries and benefits because your dealing with millions of dollars, lets say that kind of work slows down and you arent getting those size jobs anymore and you have to settle for some residential jobs now your dealing in thousands and not millions anymore, but since you have a union contract your unable to lower your costs, the benefit of being non union is is you can do any job you want flexibility without getting heavy fines from the union for breaking the union contracts.



as far as unions keeping wages up i disagree for the same reason , unions are used to dealing with big million dollar commercial jobs once they start working on residential jobs that arent soley union their costs are over inflated based on the commercial jobs millions so the residential contractor who has a smaller limited budget- homeowner versus -commercial , has to make cuts elsewere meaning hiring illegals or others who are willing to work for alot less to do the other trades. unions are good for unions maybe but they hurt other non union trades because like i said homeowners are forced to pay the piper union shops because they do the liscensed trades that are required by law and since the homeowner has a limited budget their forced to cut others bids . as far as im concerned unions could stay out of residential so the rest of us could get a bigger piece of the pie.
the union guy obviously doesnt underdstand that some jobs have limited budgets unlike govt spending commercial etc .

Celtic

Many unions have different pay scales based on the type work performed..ie, industrial/heavy commercial; light commercial/residential; maintenance, etc


Not every union contractor deals exclusively in multi-million dollar projects. Many do - but not all...and there is no requirement to.

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Chris Johnson

My electricians company just quit the union...I don't know how, actually the company got kicked out of the union. So it can be done...

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Chris

Justbuilding

My area has lower union rates for residential then commercial. Perhaps I misunderstand you but it appears that you are saying because you are a nonunion company you will jerk the wages of your employees around up and down depending on the size of the job? How do your employees handle that?

I have to chuckle about the budget comment. All clients are the same, they all want more for less and they all have a budget.

Your comment about wanting to get a bigger piece of the pie makes me believe that perhaps you could become a union member after all.

nap

Nope. You're wrong. Being a union employer is a contractual agreement and you can leave the union. It just doesn;t happen at the drop of a hat though. You have to wat until your contract expires.

You really have no idea about the unions, do you. There are union EC's in my area that do a lot of resi work. As a matter of afact, they have done a lot of services for modular homes and maintenaince in mobile home parks. So, tell my why the union costs are so much greater than non-union shops?





again, you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. The union shops have to compete, dollar for dollar against the non-union shops. Where do you get the idea that simply becuase a union shop wants to do a job, they get it, regardless of cost? They bid work just like everybody else does. If they can't compete on cost, they just don't get the job. How is that wrong?