I fear for my safety - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

grizl · 10-02-2008, 11:40 AM

Sort of. They union picketers have been picketing our company for years. Because we are non union. They showed up to my job yesterday and I mouthed off to them. Today they showed up. Big time.

Twenty plus guys with a military guy (seriously, a Military car) to lead the chants. They were yelling directly at us (very loudly and intimidatingly). Needless to say we left for the day. We will see what happens tomorrow. The two of us working left in different directions. The other guy got followed. He lost him through the city. They mean business this time.
Our company is a good company and we all get paid fine with benefits so we are proud of it and all respect the owner. This is a terrible campaign with no end in sight. Why does the Carpenters union think these are acceptable forms of competition?
Any thoughts?

neolitic · 10-02-2008, 11:49 AM

Don't know your situation.
I do know (and maybe now
you do too) it's not a good
idea to provoke people.
I worked through one where
the FBI made regular jobsite
visits.
One union steward found a bomb
in his car, the rep had a molotov
cocktail thrown through his window.
How much was it worth to you
to "mouth off"?

shanekw1 · 10-02-2008, 11:56 AM

Typical union strong-arm tactics, trying to scare ppl into believing their BS.

mickeyco · 10-02-2008, 12:09 PM

Did they bring out the giant rat, I love the giant rat.

.

grizl · 10-02-2008, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neolitic

Don't know your situation.
I do know (and maybe now
you do too) it's not a good
idea to provoke people.
I worked through one where
the FBI made regular jobsite
visits.
One union steward found a bomb
in his car, the rep had a molotov
cocktail thrown through his window.
How much was it worth to you
to "mouth off"?

I heard a good quote today. An old African line, "hold your weapon" referring to your mouth.
I did get the sense of real danger today.
my new tactic, avoid, ignore, avoid.

22rifle · 10-02-2008, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grizl

Sort of. They union picketers have been picketing our company for years. Because we are non union. They showed up to my job yesterday and I mouthed off to them. Today they showed up. Big time.

Twenty plus guys with a military guy (seriously, a Military car) to lead the chants. They were yelling directly at us (very loudly and intimidatingly). Needless to say we left for the day. We will see what happens tomorrow. The two of us working left in different directions. The other guy got followed. He lost him through the city. They mean business this time.
Our company is a good company and we all get paid fine with benefits so we are proud of it and all respect the owner. This is a terrible campaign with no end in sight. Why does the Carpenters union think these are acceptable forms of competition?
Any thoughts?

If they cross any legal lines call the cops.

grizl · 10-02-2008, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickeyco

Did they bring out the giant rat, I love the giant rat.

.

no not this time, though they have used it before.

**Ed the Roofer** · 10-02-2008, 12:34 PM

Threats of physical violence could be construed as rackateering, if the union police would want to get involved, but maybe a higher level such as the FBI would.

If there presence and actions creates a dangerous job site, try contacting OSHA to have them fined.

Ed

dreamz · 10-02-2008, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickeyco

Did they bring out the giant rat, I love the giant rat.

.

lol...I've had the giant rat at one of my jobs..

BKFranks · 10-02-2008, 01:36 PM

I wouldn't mind having a stronger union presence around here. The way it is now around here, the union is worthless and illegals have driven all the wages into the toilet. Union wages $37.35 an hour plus benefits (IF anyone could actually get any work with the union). Average wage for non-union $15-18 an hour with no benefits. That's a whopping $37k a year. That may sound OK in some areas, but not in California. To afford a house in this state you've got to make a combined income of about $120k to even get approved for a home loan. Average listing price of a home here $658,000.

grizl · 10-02-2008, 02:36 PM

BKFrank- Yeah the country is a dynamic place. In some some situations and areas the union might be a good thing. In other parts of the country it's a problem. I don't think a family company should ever feel threatened because of a union campaign against them. Especially if the wages and benefit package is similar to that which is offered by union companies.

JonM · 10-02-2008, 02:46 PM

Camcorder....tape everything while they are carrying on...

...you may need it someday.

mickeyco · 10-02-2008, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BKFranks

I wouldn't mind having a stronger union presence around here. The way it is now around here, the union is worthless and illegals have driven all the wages into the toilet. Union wages $37.35 an hour plus benefits (IF anyone could actually get any work with the union). Average wage for non-union $15-18 an hour with no benefits. That's a whopping $37k a year. That may sound OK in some areas, but not in California. To afford a house in this state you've got to make a combined income of about $120k to even get approved for a home loan. Average listing price of a home here $658,000.

The unions have been lobbying on behalf of the illegal aliens, they want there cut, that should tell you everything you ever wanted to know about unions.

.

**Cole** · 10-02-2008, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonM

Camcorder....tape everything while they are carrying on...

...you may need it someday.

I agree, but this might cause things to get worse.

concretemasonry · 10-02-2008, 05:00 PM

Since the company has been picketed for several years, it was just going through the "by the book" process until something happened.

The mouthing off may just have been the trigger to let people above the union business agent and possibly the local president to get dramatic. It also may have been an local member activist or maybe local elections were coming up.

I was responsible for 3 mason training sessions (one or two weeks each year) to get masons to lay to the line and learn materials. The students attending were sent by their employers usually and were non-union and union (some were in the apprectice program also). One day I got a call from the local BA informing me that some of the guys he could not control were going to slash my tires. I had old tires put on my car and when I came out of the masonry contractors meeting that night, they were slashed. No big problem since I planned ahead and left the car where it was so the mechanics could come out and replace the tires in the morning.

I mentioned it to the the man from Wisconsin who was teaching the class and he said the same thing happened to there, but he was not the token target of the local "goon" members.

Cdat · 10-02-2008, 05:10 PM

Fight fire with fire. Pay a bunch of local or illegal thugs, your choice, to 'talk' with the union guys.

LocalSoljah · 10-02-2008, 05:47 PM

I have a job going in Milwaukee right now and by talking with the other trades, seems the union is very weak in wisconsin being its a right to work state. I believe the union should stay strong to keep wages up for everyone but not at the expense of threats or physical violence.

**joasis** · 10-02-2008, 06:49 PM

I just have to be thankful for living in Oklahoma. This stuff doesn't happen here...this is gun country, and intimidation has about a 50/50 chance of turning deadly....not to mention that fistfights are still not that unusual here. I may be the lone voice, but I wouldn't have let anyone force me off a jobsite in the circumstances you describe. They would have had to been armed to do so....and hope I didn't have anything close....nail gun, framing hammer, or forklift.

One lesson I learned long ago about dogs and bullies.....99% of the time, it is all bluff....the 1% you need to know how to fight or bite harder then the dog....if faced with 20 guys...yeah, it would be scary, but I am just hard headed enough to tell the head bozo I won't be alone at the hospital....I would take one or more with me...and I know this tactic works. There is strength, or in this case, intimidation with numbers, but how brave would the head duck be with a 24 ounce claw hammer buried in his shoulder?

Is it worth violence? Probably not....maybe I carry the thought too far, but hey, that is why we post here. So how many other guys would do what i would do? Not back off an inch?

**Ed the Roofer** · 10-02-2008, 07:15 PM

I bought the Picketers on one of my job sites a long time ago a case of Ice Cold Brewskies to sip on during an extremely hot day.

I then arranged to have a nice candid photo shot made of the Union Picketers for future reference.

In cold weather, I actually have bought them some hot coffee too.

I even volunteered to carry their picket signs for them. Damn, I can kill them with kindness.

Then I challenged the picketing and my opportunity to work on the project and future ones with the NLRB and during the course of those actions, requested to be allowed into the Union again in a little known method, called an "Agency Fee" Member.

At that point, since I did not want to financially support their political views and non-union related expenses, I was able to require from them an "Audited Financial Statement", which would have caused them quite a few more headaches to have the distribution of the funds whereabouts know publicly, so they relinquished their pressure and we all finally agreed on a compromise, which is what I wanted from the beginning.

Ed

neolitic · 10-02-2008, 07:27 PM

I was not kidding about having
the Fibbies as job site regulars.
At least twice a week for a
couple of months.
When things are violent,
or about to turn that way,
I believe in nolo contendre.
By the way in that case it
wasn't the union throwing
the bombs.
It was hired goons, just like
the good ol' days.

That steward? when he noticed
something funny about his truck,
he was about to drive his little
girl to dance class.