How Do You Get A Guy Down Off A Rope If He Has Fallen?

Safety Guy

People need to know where you are, why you're there, and your return time...

That being said, keeping a cell phone, nextel, two-way well charged and on your body to make an emergency call to your foreman, buddy... will help in a safer decent.

If you are able to tie your shoe/boot laces together and face the tree, you shuld be able to put enough pressure against the tree and your bootlaces to relieve the pressure from your harness on your legs until someone gets to you or better yet climb back to your original platform.

You should have a spotter on a job site though...

Anti-wingnut

Yes, the tree! Trees are a valuable safety asset during all phases of construction, especially steel erection.

C'mon safety guy, that was one of the more non-contextual posts out there

Safety Guy

Dammit... you're right.... I still have hunting on the brain... nevermind... The laces will just help keep your boots on...

KennMacMoragh

The last time I did this, the guy was hanging right outside a window. I was inside and heard a thump! slide, then I looked out the window and saw a body go flying. So we just pulled him through the window. But otherwise you would need to get him a ladder right away, if you are in a full harness, it only takes about five minutes before circulation gets cut off and permanent damage begins.

Fyrzowt

We often doubt what we've never heard of. Myself included.

As a Firefighter/Paramedic and member of a technical rescue team, I have taught on the topic of suspension trauma. Yes, it's real.
It has been a few years since I gave this talk, but I believe it was the US Airforce who did some studies trying to figure out why some folks were having severe medical issues...and in some cases dying while suspended from a harness.
One major difference they found between rock climbers/rappelers and those who are suspended without support, is the fact of not being able to effectively adjust your leg position in the harness by pushing against a solid object with your feet.

I just searched my computer for the lesson plan, no luck. But Google is a great tool.

Dave


http://www.osha.gov/dts/shib/shib032404.html

http://www.mountaineer-sports.com/suspensiontrauma.php

http://www.google.com/search?q=suspe...rlz=1I7GGLD_en

tinner666

A front tie-off is allowed, even by OSHA when positioning.
A proper commercial harness looks like the one I'm wearing, but also has the upper harness attached. The front D-ring if for positioning. A second D ring on the back is part of the fall arrest system. You're supposed to be running 2 lines at all times.
http://www.petzl.com/en/pro/vertical...ses/navaho-bod

__________________
Frank Slate Roof Repairs, Richmond, Va.

tinner666

Fall arrest can kill you. Mine isn't for fall arrest, but to releive the pressure when suspending for hours, I can rotate horizonal, and upside down. I ascend a plain line in my shop sometimes and hang from the crossbeams. Plenty of freedom of movement.

Positioning and arrest systems are two different animals. Combining the two into one package is the best of both worlds.

__________________
Frank Slate Roof Repairs, Richmond, Va.

Anti-wingnut

I believe that Tinner666 and I are in full agreement

s.kelly

Thanks to all on this thread. Often forgotten aspect of climbing.

Anti-wingnut and tinner thanks particularly, you both added some good perspectives to the discussion.

JustaFramer

You have never done any real vertical work before have you?

Problem with residential fall hazard equipment is the residential contractor doesn't know the right equipment to buy for the right situation. The typical rope life line should be replace with a retractable a.k.a a yo-yo for assembling trusses.

A yo-yo will cost more that the fall arrest kits you typical see. Hell my personal harness Sala 6 point cost more than the typical fall arrest bucket kits out there.

siding guy23

I heard u should tie a loop in the dead end for your foot so the harness doesn't cut off circulation

Morning Wood

I haven't read anyone mentioning lowering the guy down to the ground. I would think that would be the quickest way to get them help. You would have to know a good knot or have a special clip that you could clip onto their line near the anchor point. Clip or tie on another line put it under tension and then cut their original line and lower them to the ground or the next roof whatever. It might take a couple guys to lower them, but if they are conscious and moving then one guy might be able to lower them with a small block and tackle set up on their original anchor point.

tinner666

This is general info. You need special training to implement it!
I have 3 Black I'd's. They are techniquely Descenders. Drop two lines. Go down on one, The other will ba an anchor for the I'd. Or even a Gri-Gri. Run a aline through it and tie into the worker's harness. After tieing them off, you can take load on the descender, cut the other line and lower the person, then yourself.

If your own line and anchor can carry the weight, you could do it on one line. But, like I say, it takes training and special gear and is beat left to the experts.

Easiest way is to just cut the person's line! That'll get him down in a flash. Might want to have a net under him though!

__________________
Frank Slate Roof Repairs, Richmond, Va.

John Galt

Lots of helpful perspectives here...and some not so much.
Ex-A.F. SERE/SAR and demo contractor. The best way to deal with the inevitable is to approach the job as though the accident will happen. Stage whatever equipment or gear that you might need for rescue before you ascend. Discuss the process of what everyone is to do when the worst happens. Preparing this way keeps everyone focused and attentive to the point that when the pick or job is complete it's almost anti-climactic that there wasn't a mishap. Never seen a job yet that's worth someone's life.

A hundred years ago when I still made decisions based on testosterone levels my partners and I decided that we could drop a three story fire escape in a crowded alley without proper rigging. We had told the Superintendent that we were renting a crane, owned all of the rigging , yada, yada, yada. We didn't have squat. Some rope and a bridge torch. Young, stupid and lucky. Safety line was a huge coil of hemp hanging over a parapet tied to a waist belt. Belay was a couple of coils around a soil stack with the other two idiots bracing. Burned climbing from the bottom up and about 10' from the top the whole shootin' match came out of the wall. Missed a couple of pole transformers by inches, gouged some stucco off of an opposing wall and left my then 200 pounds hanging at the waist and feeling like everything that used to be in my gut was now squirting out of my ears. The two on the roof lowered me down into the tangle of steel in a matter of seconds...and I still felt like I was going to die. I probably should have. That wasn't the last stupid thing that we pulled, but eventually we wised up and started to realize that we weren't immortal.

Over the ensuing years I saw a precast panel kick a choker and plow threw one deck after another on its way to the basement of a high rise leaving bits and pieces of human remains smeared along the edges. Guys that never saw it coming.

A dumpster truck hooked a scaffold while pulling a can. There were guys tied off all over the place up to seven stories high and they could feel that something really bad was happening, but they couldn't scream loud enough to get the driver's attention. When he started dragging the scaffold the cross bars started springing off and acted like pikes that impaled men as they fell, looking like a slow motion scene from Dante's Inferno.

Saw a guy get lazy running a Case Uniloader skid steer across a lunar landscape with a bucket of used brick. He pulled his feet out of the well and stretched them out along the front brace plate...right behind the bucket. He hit a bump, the machine lurched forward and he tried to catch himself with Case's idiotic operating levers...which in turn brought the boom smashing down and the bucket rolling back...flat up against the front brace plate and half crushing , half severing both of the man's legs just above mid calf. I got to take him out of the machine and perform the emergency trauma care while he screamed until he fell unconscious.

A young cousin was climbing a 3/12...a lousy 3/12 to check something for an estimate late one afternoon. Near the gable he hit a soft spot and as he started to go through lost his balance and fell over the edge. The heat pump broke his fall and his spine. Paralyzed from the chest down at 24 from a fall off of a nearly flat rancher.

A guy running a Bobcat backed into an open elevator shaft and fell three stories. They had rented the machine from me that morning and we had just finished craning and winching it onto the third floor deck.

One of the surest footed steel cats I've ever seen was practically running across a super structure of laminated beams burning thirty foot sections that were already choked and hanging from the crane. He'd get a wedge cut in one end and leave a small plug, then run to the other side and do the same while the crane tensioned up and jerked it to snap it loose. As dangerous as his free climbing in the sixth story penthouse was it was nothing like what happened when he got stung by a friggin' bee. A bee! By the time we managed to ride the crane back to him he was already blue from his airway being choked off as he started into shock. In what couldn't have been more than a few mere minutes we had manged to get him onto a solid piece of deck where he ended up getting the second emergency field tracheotomy of my young life with six of his buddies sittin' on his arms and legs and me over his chest. Nothin' like slittin' a guys throat on purpose while he's convulsing and trying to stop you...and you're trying to be precise.

Watching a guy direct the driving of some sheet piles while we had our coffee on a job across the street. He shouldn't have been in the hole but he was. The sheet sheared a high pressure steam line and we got a chance to listen and watch as a human being was completely destroyed by steam that pinned him against the head of the trench. Quite a scene watching him get beat against the dirt wall while bits and chunks of him and the wall were sent flying. He didn't scream very long at all.

I guess the knuckleheads that don't buy the suspension trauma probably don't believe that they can die standing up in a four foot trench either.

It's a dangerous biz, and sometimes all of the preparation and common sense in the world won't keep ya safe from that errant puff of wind or the momentary lapse of concentration. Even in the corn fields of Iowa.

The only people that can't understand the seriousness of the issue are those that have been lucky enough to not live long enough to see it yet...but they will.

__________________
"Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you walk into an open sewer and die." - Mel Brooks

ZACC

In Cellular work, we had to be trained to perform our own rescues. Which involves an additional person on the ground in full gear, rescue line, and figure 8 or a fisc descended and a carabineer. To be certified as a rescue climber, you have to actually save someone that is hanging in their harness at or above 100', and safely bring him to the ground. We didn’t and wouldn’t wait for 911. Besides, if we did and they got there, and the guy is 450' up the tower in his harness, they aren’t going to know what to do either.

In construction, I would be surprised if anyone at the job is rescue certified, or has the proper rescue gear. I have hung in my harness for an hour...if it’s a good one, you will survive...just call 911.

Graham J

We recently completed our fall arrest course as a company, and we had to hang in harnesses for a few minutes. We were just a few feet above ground, but it hurts to hang in a OHSA harness for even a few minutes, never mind the jerk of falling! The better harnesses just don't hurt as bad. The handy step loop (can't remember the real name off hand) helps, because we got to try one of them as well. They are only a temp fix, though.

A well thought out rescue plan is part of your fall arrest program. Period. If you can't be rescued from a hanging position, then re-think if you need to be up that high, or only give yourself enough slack to restrain you from falling, rather than fall arresting.

Every situation is going to be different, depending on the elevation, type of work, and type of equipment available. At least one good ladder and a spotter with some training and a lot of common sense is fairly critical. A man-basket is nicer!

Thanks for a very useful thread! Much appreciated.

regards,
Graham

John Galt

Yeah. What he said.
Particularly the part about restraint vs. fall arresting.

__________________
"Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you walk into an open sewer and die." - Mel Brooks

aikenback

I am curious why iron workers have 15 feet to work with while framers dont. the jobs are similar. especially timber framing. The steel would be a lot more slippery as well. Why not just more training for framers, and work at hieght qualifications. Waste of breath i know but if precautions are not practical and/ or create other hazzards, they won't be used by people.

Anti-wingnut

They don't. You are quoting facts that are not facts. OSHA and the applicable state rules about fall protection and leading edge work apply to all. The standard is 10', at which point fall protection or fall restraint is reguired, except in leading edge work.

Can you supply some proof about this Ironworker exception you speak of, or are you furthering misunderstanding of worker safety by blithering non truths onto the innernet?

JustaFramer

The 10 feet rule is a Washington state WISHA thing. Federal OSHA is 6'. As for ironworkers getting 15 feet. Yes that is true.

OSHA 29 CFR Subpart R 1926.760(a)(1) 1926.760(b)(1) says 30'.